Uni Fees

[TiddlesRX7]

Further education is a not something everyone should expect to get. Yes anyone should be entitled to do it, but it should not be given it for next to nothing. You go into futher education to better yourself and get a better paid job at the end. If you get paid more when you leave then you should expect to pay the money owed back. Simple as that. If you want to do it then great go for it, pay the money back and quit complaining about being hard done too.

At the end of the day it is a choice. I chose not to go to uni. I got an apprentiship and learned my skills through work. Yes I went to college as part of it some of it was paid for some I paid for myself. My education, My choice.


Im not saying that I am right in the following statement but....
If more people were to do apprentiships or start at the bottom and work up through the ranks, then maybe this country would be able to do things for itself insted of buying in 90% of things.

[Mir]

I am a bit confused.. when Royal wedding is a discussion-most of the people would say lets fund the wedding in terms of transport, policing etc etc. But when the education becomes an issue, people tend to say that why would someone be studying on my tax money?

Guys lets be on one side. Either all of us should agree that-unless the money is not spent on the people as a whole, we are not supporting any move of the government. Or we can argue that we are individual people and come from individual backgrounds so we should respect the diversity of everyone. If someone wants to study they should be given every opportunity to study regardless of anyones tax money.

I am an example and most of the forum people are examples too. I have studied to a Masters level of education. Yes, I had to take the student loan out in order to do my desired qualification. I am paying back my loan but its easily said difficultly done. Every month from my pay slip the student loan is deducted and I know its going to take me few years to finish it off. However, imagine if the fees are up-to 9K how much loan money students need to take out and how long would it take them to pay it back? (bearing in mind the food, the cost of living at the University Halls etc etc).

I don\'t support violence nor I disagree with peaceful demonstration as this is one pillar of the Rule of Law (said by Lord Dicey 1889). However, students have every right to express their concerns peacefully.  

Lastly, lets not forget that education is a success of every nation. This is proved by the Fascist Theory-where they spent less on education and more on state. The result was-the money was there but there weren\'t competent people left in the country in order to take the country towards success...

Disclaimer:
No disrespect to anyone, its just my suggestions. Education is key to success and it can be in any shape either at School, Uni, or vocational..

Regards
Syed

[jetpilot]

Sorry buddy, comments like cost of living is completely irrelevant, we all have cost of living!

In no generalisation as i know there are some very hard working students out there, but ANY night out in my town is full of students, absolutely 100% out their heads, so i have to question, if your worried about cost of living, you should also be worried about the cost of going into town, paying to get into bars and paying for drinks, let alone getting up the next day and "studying"!

I am afraid students have got a bad rap because of their lifestyles.

And i find it especially ironic that they have the time and money to get to London to demonstrate!

[dthebuk]

Further education is a not something everyone should expect to get. Yes anyone should be entitled to do it, but it should not be given it for next to nothing. You go into futher education to better yourself and get a better paid job at the end. If you get paid more when you leave then you should expect to pay the money owed back. Simple as that. If you want to do it then great go for it, pay the money back and quit complaining about being hard done too.

At the end of the day it is a choice. I chose not to go to uni. I got an apprentiship and learned my skills through work. Yes I went to college as part of it some of it was paid for some I paid for myself. My education, My choice.


Im not saying that I am right in the following statement but....
If more people were to do apprentiships or start at the bottom and work up through the ranks, then maybe this country would be able to do things for itself insted of buying in 90% of things.

I think charging people more isn\'t the answer. At the end of the day you want people who are going to do well at uni and after uni to go, and raising fee\'s could put them off. In some cases you\'re right, some courses/jobs don\'t really help society, but those that do shouldn\'t be forced to pay vast somes of money imo. You could always base uni fee\'s on someones performance at A level, but then some people don\'t do well at A levels but do do well at uni. Its hard to seperate really. Putting it down to money is really not the option.


can\'t agree with you more about apprenticships and alternative education, there should be much more focus on it

[RXSpeedy]

I couldnt give 2 ***** about the raise in money its the p****** on war memorials, using poppy reefs as frisbee\'s, attacking members of OUR ROYAL FAMILY that really really gets me going :2Mad.

[MrHanky]

Is 9k a year not the maximum that they can charge? I was under the impression that not all universities would charge this.  Either way cost is going up and students may have to think about earning money to help get through uni.  I know this sounds a crazy concept for some students, but when they are not in their 4 hour a week class, or studying (watching TV or getting drunk), they could potentially try to get a part time job.
 
I also agree more should be done to get people doing apprenticeships.  Lets also remember that you aren\'t doomed to fail in life, just because you don\'t go to university.  I went straight to work and started off as a lowly paid warehouse op, cleaning shelves etc.  Have gradually worked my way through various companies, invested money in myself by paying for a few courses along the way, and now I work in IT as an SAP analyst / developer.
 
There is a lot to be said for starting from the bottom and working your way up.  You learn a lot about many different areas, gain practical experience and ultimately appreciate a lot more about other areas of work.
 
Obviously this does not apply to all jobs as there are certain areas where studying is required, before the practical.  But IMO there are too many people out there doing soft degrees for the sake of it.
 
Mark

[Will66]

I don\'t think those were students doing the vandalism.  There were plenty of CND, Trident Ploughshare, Anarchy and other anti-establishment logos in the groups of people doing the criminal damage.  Doesn\'t make it right.

[Jit]

Havent read the whole thread and quite frankly am not going to but I would support a tiered system which actually encourages students to take up so called professional courses (medicine, pharmacy, economics, engineering, maths) as opposed to so called mickey mouse ones (business management, horse studies, the life and times of michael jackson) to make university places more competetive especially for courses leading to proffessional qualifications (MBBS, MPharm, BEng as an example) and structure the fees based on parental income AND on performance at A-Level (although for that to happen we would need to lose some of the mickey mouse GCSE and A-Level examining boards). This way if a student decided they wanted to do a soft degree and drink and shag themselves into oblivion then they can do so at their own cost. Is this too simplistic a view?

[shaunwil]

Maybe a better option would be to tie the more professional degrees as part of a higher level apprenticeship. The student could work for them and the company help them with their costs. It\'s how modern apprenticeships work with more coversational experience such as engineering.

Shaun

[TiddlesRX7]

I think charging people more isn\'t the answer. At the end of the day you want people who are going to do well at uni and after uni to go, and raising fee\'s could put them off. In some cases you\'re right, some courses/jobs don\'t really help society, but those that do shouldn\'t be forced to pay vast somes of money imo. You could always base uni fee\'s on someones performance at A level, but then some people don\'t do well at A levels but do do well at uni. Its hard to seperate really. Putting it down to money is really not the option.


can\'t agree with you more about apprenticships and alternative education, there should be much more focus on it

I know what your saying but..... If you get good enough grades at school then you should get a chance to go to uni. The Government should provide you with the means to do this (with a student loan). Now depending on what you want to study should reflect on what you pay for your uni course. For example if you want to be a doctor your course fee\'s should be more than if someone who studies something to do with IT. When your finnished you\'ll be earning enough to pay back the extra.
Basically it\'ll sort the men out from the boys! If your there for the right reasons its gonna be hard but worth it in the end. If your not then you\'ll end up in a fair amount of debt and have a hang over in a dead end job.


And yes we should as a nation be doing more learning in work from a young age. We have forgot how to do things for ourselves and find it easier to pay someone else to do what ever it is. Industry has suffered as a result.


Ade

[skybusr34]

i dont see why your parental earning should be taken into account when deciding the costs. why should mr A whos worked really hard for his money have to fund x % more towards his childs uni  compared to mr b who got a rubbish job. its unfair.

the students should get into uni based on there merits from school, and the course fee should be the same accross the board regardless of wealth or lack of it.


and i do think the course fees should be charged to the students.  not on any profit margin. but the cost of there education should be paid for by them.  primary,secondary and 6th form is free. but after than i think it should be paid for..

if they go to uni. do a decent course, study hard (not just drinking partys etc) they wil come out of it with a qualification that will put them into a position to earn big bucks..   do a rubbish course about the life and times of michael jackson (as jit put it) then they will end up stacking shelves at tesco with a big debt ( no offence tescos stackers!!) ...

[BlitzBoy]

Havent read the whole thread and quite frankly am not going to but I would support a tiered system which actually encourages students to take up so called professional courses (medicine, pharmacy, economics, engineering, maths) as opposed to so called mickey mouse ones (business management, horse studies, the life and times of michael jackson) to make university places more competetive especially for courses leading to proffessional qualifications (MBBS, MPharm, BEng as an example) and structure the fees based on parental income AND on performance at A-Level (although for that to happen we would need to lose some of the mickey mouse GCSE and A-Level examining boards). This way if a student decided they wanted to do a soft degree and drink and shag themselves into oblivion then they can do so at their own cost. Is this too simplistic a view?

 :Thumbs-up Defo not a simplistic view, a very constructive view, and given that you are from the Education environment your view holds more sway then others

[Nik da Greek]

Getting confused about where I answered what now. Think I must have spoken about "soft" degrees on Who Wins rather than here so I\'ll drop my 2ps worth again...

I kinda disagree with the whole "soft" degree argument on a couple of levels. Perhaps the most convincing argument being that a degree, ANY degree is not necessarily designed to provide the student with every last piece of information and every skill needed to perform their chosen job, but rather the pssessing of a degree says to prospective employers that this person is capable of the discipline, application and intelligence to achieve degree standard and is therefore (theoretically) capable of applying those skills to the job in question. Teaching, since th\'boy Jit has been mentioned, is a good example...a student can either do a teacher training degree (whatver they\'re called this week) and go straight into teaching from University, or they can do whatever degree they like (often but not necessarily in the subject they end up teaching) then do an extra course to give them the teaching qualification (PGCE or whatever). Thus you end up with, for example, one of our friends who is a History graduate but works as a Physical Education teacher. His degree is irrelevant to his job beyond it being a measure of his intelligence and ability to learn.

Therefore, yes a film studies degree (or whatever) may seem like an excuse to watch a load of movies for a year and drink copious amounts of beer but that person my achieving a pass grade is showing that they are capable of learning and applying themsleves for three years. Lets face it, if all people wanted to do was get plssed for a few years, there are better ways to do it. Stay living at home or a cheap rented place, and any job becomes high-paying when you have no mortgage or bills to pay, you don\'t have to go through all the tedious mucking about reading books and writing essays nonsense.

Also, who is to judge what a soft degree is? Without having actually done it, who can say how easy it is? If you\'re a mathematical genius, an astrophysics degree may not seem the daunting prospect it is to most of us mortals. By the same token, the same maths prodigy may be so literal-minded that they could not see the nuance of expression in a poem and would find an English degree impossible. One of Beths housemates when she was at Uni was an astrophysicist who could work out stopping distances for his driving test in his head based on frighteningly complex formulae, but it never occurred to him to simply memorise the numbers on the back of the Highway Code, and you had to explain any film plot to him twice because he just never picked up on the subtexts and subtleties. Another housemate did a film studies degree and now has a succesful self-made business running a movie shop, and as a sideline edits movie scripts. Not bad for a "soft" degree. Who can judge the future?

I always think there\'s a bit of jealousy involved in this sorta backlash, like the same mentality that resents people who speed past on the motorway at 110 cos we\'d secretly like to be doing it too but our personal risk/reward balance doesn\'t allow it so we tut about how irresponsible they are  instead. Likewise, from the outside we see someone apparently living the life of Reily whilst "studying" for their Carribean Studies degree and wish we could be having the six-month field trip to the Bahamas instead of reading dusty old books full of Shakespeare and Chaucer

I probably need to write some shorter posts :o

Apparently, I smell of wee, too :rollin

[Will66]

Personally I think the new system of funding is good since it means that the financial responsibility for the degree rests with the individual.

[BlitzBoy]

Lets face it, if all people wanted to do was get plssed for a few years, there are better ways to do it. Stay living at home or a cheap rented place, and any job becomes high-paying when you have no mortgage or bills to pay, you don\'t have to go through all the tedious mucking about reading books and writing essays nonsense.

You say this Nik that are better ways of doing it, but real truth be told thats why most people go to University is for social aspect of it, it is a fact, Ive seen it with my own eyes,experienced it ,had friends that did it and if people on this forum that have been to Uni will admit to it, its 60% getting ....ed up and partying and 40% studying.

Plus the reason most people don\'t stay at home and get a job and just get ....ed and live with parents, because most parents wont allow it and make sure their kids pay rent and bills. So the child wants to get away from their parents ,not be told what to do,and be seen doing good by studying. Its a right a passage to adulthood as it were, so yes the student should pay something towards the bill, but maybe not as high as 9 grand a term though.

Even the Science degree I did could have been done in 2 years, if the time free between lectures and practical lessons was condensed, I worked out on average we only had 3 hours of lectures a day, some days none.

Anyway we only had a few people say how we would fund Unis instead of a fee raise, cmon some more views on that please.