effective cooling

Archbish · September 20, 2009, 09:43:08 AM

So, as far as I can tell, the install I have put in the 1st gen SHOULD be cooling enough. But it doesn\'t seem to be able to hold the temps as low as I would expect...

the engine setup is as below, but with a big fat 16" fan hard up against the rad, and it definitely pulls air through from the front of it.

the intercooler is as close to the rad as I can get it, and the T2 oil cooler is about 4" in front of that toward the front of the car.

I\'m thinking the following may help/be an issue:
1 - add an expansion tank to increase the volume of fluid by maybe 3 litres.
2 - would the timing possibly cause the engine to run hotter? It\'s still the base map from Microtech with 10% fuel taken out (runs a LOT better with that).
3 - move the intercooler up, and the oil cooler below it up against the rad to try and improve air flow

what\'s the general concensus on the above, and any other ideas I wouldn\'t have through of?

Ada7 · September 20, 2009, 10:18:03 AM

What temps are you getting mate?

Adam

m1tch · September 20, 2009, 10:23:03 AM

Wouldn\'t it be best to have the fan sitting on the back of the radiator, pulling air though from the front, I also see that you are missing an undertray (I can see the floor lol) - you need one for proper cooling, remember that air flows from high pressure to low pressure, the high pressure you get at the front of the car, if the inside of the engine bay isn\'t low pressure then the air isn\'t going to want to flow to it, meaning that without an undertray the low pressure area turns into a medium pressure area, meaning that air will flow into it, just not as well as if it was a low pressure area.

You just have to be really careful when modifying the enginebay with regards to airflow, I think there is a thread in the 3rd gen section about having the undertray in and not, showing a big drop in temperature.

What bonnet are you running at the mo?

Archbish · September 20, 2009, 10:30:50 AM

the fan is on the back of the rad - it wasn\'t mounted when the pic was taken... And it\'s a 1st gen, which doesn\'t have an undertray, but with a 13bt T04 engine. The water is creeping up toward the 90s, and the fan simply isn\'t holding the temp.

kev-yorks · September 20, 2009, 10:53:45 AM

You say you\'ve fitted a 16inch fan bish which is more than big enough but is it shrouded? Which will cause the fan to pull air through the full rad area rather than just the unshrouded fan pulling through a percentage of the rad.

mpk490p · September 20, 2009, 10:54:31 AM

Bish what sensor are you using? where is it in the system? also you should have a undertray this will help things

Ada7 · September 20, 2009, 10:57:27 AM

Make sure you\'ve got no tiny leaks anywhere as this will lower the water pressure and so it\'ll heat up more. Double check that the fan is getting good power and that the blades are the right way round. Was speaking to Geoff at ReWorx and he was explaining to me that fan can be either way around to draw air through but one way is more efficent than the other.
But i\'m sure you\'ve checked all that anyway

Adam

Archbish · September 20, 2009, 11:03:08 AM

Thank chaps. I wasn\'t sure whether a shroud would help with this or not, as when moving, air would be going through it - but if it\'ll help, then I\'ll definitely put one on! The sensor is tapped opposite the stock one - and the laptop plugged into the ECU says it\'s 90 deg. Is there an undertray for a 1st gen? It is definitely round the right way, and is leak free.

I\'m wondering if the volume of coolant is enough. An FC uses nearly 10 litres of coolant, but with the install I have, it\'s under 5 litres. That\'s probably an issue right there, right?

m1tch · September 20, 2009, 11:06:23 AM

Im pretty sure we don\'t have 10 litres of coolent in out systems!

Archbish · September 20, 2009, 11:14:14 AM

the service manual says 8.7 for the turbo (ok, not quite 10 litres... *grin*)

Ada7 · September 20, 2009, 11:44:24 AM

Surely without the bonnet the temps shouldn\'t be a problem at all. :p

Adam

mpk490p · September 20, 2009, 11:57:48 AM

there defenatly is a undertray for a gen 1 pal, ah the big cowling or not cowling debate, i dont run one as the fan it attached directly to the rad some say you get better airflow whilst driving without and others say you need one to maximise fan efficency i dont have any problems with mine although the only cooling upgrade is a double thick rad and electric fan, i take a temp reading from the rad outlet although i have just brought a sensor (95c on 90c off) to sit just before the thermostate which fully opens at 88c so my temps would be 90ish near the stock temp sensor (will still have the sensor near rad exit to aftermarket gauge and of course stock gauge)

shaunwil · September 20, 2009, 12:09:09 PM

Quote from: Archbish;642779the fan is on the back of the rad - it wasn\'t mounted when the pic was taken... And it\'s a 1st gen, which doesn\'t have an undertray, but with a 13bt T04 engine. The water is creeping up toward the 90s, and the fan simply isn\'t holding the temp.

The 1st gen did have an undertray in steel !!! I had mine powdercoated !

Shaun

Archbish · September 20, 2009, 12:41:12 PM

Oh, right - what do the 1st gen undertrays look like? I\'ll be fabbing one then...

mpk490p · September 20, 2009, 01:06:32 PM

bish there are a couple being broken (http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=60033&highlight=breaking+gen+1) sure you could get one sorted not sure fabbing one would help as they have serveral slits and holes in