13b turbo transverse in 306 Pug

[shaunwil]

But thats a 12a engine, there is a 20mm increase in overall length with the 13b.

Shaun

[maztra]

But thats a 12a engine, there is a 20mm increase in overall length with the 13b.

So? Will that make gearbox/adapterplate/driveshafts/exhaust more difficult?

[Bramble]

What an awesome idea! Go for it! Only problem I can see is that the Peugeot gearbox will struggle with the huge increase in torque, they are notoriously weak. I would like to shake your hand once its all done! Personally I would like to put a PP 13b NA in an old mazda 323 still FF but dont have the time, patience or money. Good luck!

[crf450]

Andy,Craig\'s engine will get a freshen up, I don\'t know if I\'ll do it but it\'ll get done one way or another.
Bramble, I\'ve had a change of plan as regards gearbox choice, I\'m now using a V6 406 box which I\'ve got a couple of low mileage ones kicking around. I\'ve always had the idea of using one of these in the back of my mind but I was put off by the fact that there\'s no LSD available for it, but after talking to Quaiffe at the show I\'m pretty sure I can adapt an ATB out of another model. This gearbox has much wider gears and the input shaft is almost as big as the Mazda one which is about 4mm bigger on diameter than the std 306 input shaft. It will also bolt on to the original g/box mount and all the drive shafts are interchangeable with the 306 ones and are again much more substantial.
Maztra, I can see you\'ve had to overcome all the same problems that I\'m faced with. I\'m tilting the Mazda engine back slightly which means my driveshaft will run over the headers. As someone has pointed out the 13b engine is slightly longer than yours which helps me with regard mounting the intermediate driveshaft bearing. I\'ll be able to machine dowel and bolt holes in the Mazda end casing which will mean I can have a small alloy mount which will be almost as it was designed to be fitted in the Pug.
I\'ve only had time to have a quick scan through your website but it looks as though you\'ve had a bespoke input shaft made to run in the Mazda needle roller fitted in the crank. I was thinking this wasn\'t necessary. I thought the general rule of thumb was rear wheel drive gearboxes locate in a bearing in the crank where as front wheel drive boxes don\'t. As I was using a front wheel drive box I didn\'t think it was necessary. I\'d be interested to here your thoughts on this.
As regards the progress on my conversion, I\'ve had WGT send me a end casting off a 13b engine and I\'ve plotted all the whole centres, I\'ve now got to do the same with the V6 box then I can make the adaptor. I had planned on doing some more work on it at the weekend but as the weather was good I opted on doing a trackday at Bedford on Saturday then one at Donington on Sunday. Hope to do some more work later this week now.
Cheers Martin

[Bramble]

Good luck it will be a beast! Might need to do some weight lifting to get ready for the torque steer, but it\'ll be a scream!

[maztra]

I\'ve only had time to have a quick scan through your website but it looks as though you\'ve had a bespoke input shaft made to run in the Mazda needle roller fitted in the crank. I was thinking this wasn\'t necessary. I thought the general rule of thumb was rear wheel drive gearboxes locate in a bearing in the crank where as front wheel drive boxes don\'t. As I was using a front wheel drive box I didn\'t think it was necessary. I\'d be interested to here your thoughts on this
Cheers Martin

As far as i know, most of the inputshaft have a pilot-end which goes in the center bearing of the crank. Both transversal gearbox and RWD gearboxes. It is meant to hold the inputshaft in the center of the crank. The toyota box i used, doesn\'t have such a pilot-end on the input shaft. The shaft i made (with pilot-end) is only a tool to line the gearbox up with the engine. After it was lined up, i put the original input shaft back in.
 
My first thought was to get the bolt pattern from the engine and gearbox and draw an adapterplate with autocad. Problem was i couldn\'t found these patterns. And even if i found them, question is if the center of the shaft is also marked (and how acurate). So i skipped the plan of designing the bolt patern with autocad. Instead i made a adapterplate without any holes.
I just marked and drilled the holes of the engine, bolt it to the engine, put the engine in a vertical position, and put the gearbox on top. With the input shaft tool i made i centered the gearbox, using the needle bearing in the crank as reference. Marked and drilled the holes in the adapterplate and that\'s it! It worked for me.
 
If you\'re not using the mazda flywheel, you have to use a mazda flywheel flange from an automatic gear with the same engine. The mazda flywheel has some counterweights in it. In an automatic gear flywheel the counterweights are in the flange. You can bolt an alternative flywheel to this flange.
 
I prefered to use a PSA gearbox instead of the toyota one. The thing with PSA gearboxes is, that the part of the dif where the shaft comes out, is not flush with the bellhousing. That makes the adapterplate a bit more challenging. But if you tilt the engine a bit backwards, you move that part of the dif away from the engine. Which makes it a bit easyer.

[rx jamie]

good project seems like you know what your doing anyway.
will be a frustrating to drive though. i had a 275 bhp 2 liter nova.  its span up to redline in 1st,2nd,3rd and 4th gear in the dry and understeered like a bitch.

[dthebuk]

isn\'t the 13b lighter? heel be getting more torque understeer than anything else

[m1tch]

You converting to RWD? The most you should put though a FWD car is about 220ish, my mate over in Norway has over 500bhp running in his Mazda 323F and thats front wheel drive, but hes used a boost controler to actualy drive it lol