Air Temps

[Kash_]

Found some info on Air Temp Sensor relocation. Still not sure if it\'s worth doing? :xconfused

http://www.negative-camber.org/crispyrx7/ait.htm

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=202786&highlight=air+temp+sensor

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=110226&highlight=air+temp+sensor

[m4drx]

Found some info on Air Temp Sensor relocation. Still not sure if it\'s worth doing? :xconfused

http://www.negative-camber.org/crispyrx7/ait.htm

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=202786&highlight=air+temp+sensor

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=110226&highlight=air+temp+sensor

i want to do this and i will use the stock sensor just so i improve things but not too drastic but i want someone else to drill and tap my elboe because i know i whill fduk it up.

[Timrxmotors]

Wow! I never realised how inefficient the standard intercooler was!

Works fine on my 12A,less than 1psi pressure drop at 1 bar boost,max Air temp 40c,and about 75c on the strip with 1.6 bar boost.That is with no ducting,and the bonnet shut on top of it!

[m4drx]

Works fine on my 12A,less than 1psi pressure drop at 1 bar boost,max Air temp 40c,and about 75c on the strip with 1.6 bar boost.That is with no ducting,and the bonnet shut on top of it!

i think it has alot to do with the fd engine bay being packed and the temp sender as i believe the fb one is far more sensitive.

how are you down there anyway!

you coming to japshow by any chance?

:Thumbsup!

[nikp]

i want to do this and i will use the stock sensor just so i improve things but not too drastic but i want someone else to drill and tap my elboe because i know i whill fduk it up.

I still don\'t think it\'ll prove anything. Ok, you\'ll see lower temps, but my belief is that you\'re fooling yourself into believing that\'s the temp of the air going into the engine. If the temp sensor gets heat soaked, then don\'t you think the air in the manifold is also getting heat soaked? What you really need to look into is stopping so much heat from soaking into the manifold - like putting insulation on it.

[m4drx]

I still don\'t think it\'ll prove anything. Ok, you\'ll see lower temps, but my belief is that you\'re fooling yourself into believing that\'s the temp of the air going into the engine. If the temp sensor gets heat soaked, then don\'t you think the air in the manifold is also getting heat soaked? What you really need to look into is stopping so much heat from soaking into the manifold - like putting insulation on it.

insulation yes i agree but i think the degree of heat soak is worse on the sender as the air rushes through with such speed when your moving that it wont soak much.

plus the way i see it if the temp is higher and the air is actually cooler then you are risking running lean when you put your foot down etc but if the air gets a little heatsoaked it has a less negative effect as it will run slightly rich.

also the greddy elbow will get heat soaked anyway so this should only improve it slightly but i do believe it is the worst place for it. also WI costs more otherwise i would have done that i suppose.

anyway your thoughts are appreciated guys!

i like a good debate as this subject has no right or wrong without prooven facts i suppose A/F ratios etc.

[Kash_]

maybe someone with a wideband could do a test for us measure a/f ratio with sensor in stock position and in the elbow?

[m4drx]

would be very difficult to make it accurate but possible.

there is a big lack of back to back testing with stuff  for rexs ie exhaust intecoolers etc etc they seem to be common with other cars.

[kbareham]

On the back to back testing, I\'ve had a PFC with datalogit and Zeitronix wideband for about a year. I log every journey I make.

Last year the car was mechanically very standard. Air temps were often in the 50\'s, but didn\'t really drop much below mid 40\'s on the motorway in the summer. My main concern was water temps. I usually saw 83-84 on the motorway, but even a long hill would push the temp to 90+ while still doing 60 mph + in traffic. As soon as the fan came on (AC button) the temp dropped. This suggested a dreadful lack of air through the radiator.

Over the winter I went single and took the chance to upgrade the cooling. I now have a custom radiator from Alisport and a 600 * 300 * 100 FMIC.  I was careful with ducting, undertray and sealing round the radiator etc. I also have a vented bonnet.

On Friday I got stuck in the goodwood traffic for an hour. Water temp went up from 84 to 85 ! Air temp reached 56. As I got moving again, the air temps were back in the 30\'s before I even got into 5th gear. 30 against an ambient of about 25 seems usual when pottering along on the motorway.

So for the comparison, the stock radiator, intercooler and general shrouding of them is hopeless. Large FMIC\'s do seem to work, despite the concern over blocking the radiator.



Keith

[m4drx]

On the back to back testing, I\'ve had a PFC with datalogit and Zeitronix wideband for about a year. I log every journey I make.

Last year the car was mechanically very standard. Air temps were often in the 50\'s, but didn\'t really drop much below mid 40\'s on the motorway in the summer. My main concern was water temps. I usually saw 83-84 on the motorway, but even a long hill would push the temp to 90+ while still doing 60 mph + in traffic. As soon as the fan came on (AC button) the temp dropped. This suggested a dreadful lack of air through the radiator.

Over the winter I went single and took the chance to upgrade the cooling. I now have a custom radiator from Alisport and a 600 * 300 * 100 FMIC.  I was careful with ducting, undertray and sealing round the radiator etc. I also have a vented bonnet.

On Friday I got stuck in the goodwood traffic for an hour. Water temp went up from 84 to 85 ! Air temp reached 56. As I got moving again, the air temps were back in the 30\'s before I even got into 5th gear. 30 against an ambient of about 25 seems usual when pottering along on the motorway.

So for the comparison, the stock radiator, intercooler and general shrouding of them is hopeless. Large FMIC\'s do seem to work, despite the concern over blocking the radiator.



Keith

thanks for your insight keith hard facts are very useful i have always thought negatively about front mounts but i am starting to think more positively about them since i have enquired more about them

what does your datalogit setup look like out of intrest

[kbareham]

I have a PC in the boot, mini-ITX based with windows 2000. This connects to the datalogit box, and the Zeitronix box via serial and USB (can\'t remember which one uses which at the moment!). This means that I can log from the Datalogit, or the Zeitronix.

The Zeitronix has connection to the PFC harness to read RPM and throttle position, plus of course it connects to the wideband, a pressure sensor and an exhaust temp probe.

The Zeitronix wideband output connects to the Datalogit input in order to log AFR on the datalogit. This is key, so that you can log AFR for each map location.

To make it all usable, there is a VGA motorised touch screen and power controller to boot the PC when I turn the radio on (therefore ignition too). The audio out of the PC is connected to the AUX in on the radio to get sound for MP3\'s, sat nav etc. Finally it has a wireless adapter so that the car connects to my home network when I get home. This allows me to transfer logs and maps to my PC indoors and work on map tweeks in the comfort of the study!



Keith

[m4drx]

I have a PC in the boot, mini-ITX based with windows 2000. This connects to the datalogit box, and the Zeitronix box via serial and USB (can\'t remember which one uses which at the moment!). This means that I can log from the Datalogit, or the Zeitronix.

The Zeitronix has connection to the PFC harness to read RPM and throttle position, plus of course it connects to the wideband, a pressure sensor and an exhaust temp probe.

The Zeitronix wideband output connects to the Datalogit input in order to log AFR on the datalogit. This is key, so that you can log AFR for each map location.

To make it all usable, there is a VGA motorised touch screen and power controller to boot the PC when I turn the radio on (therefore ignition too). The audio out of the PC is connected to the AUX in on the radio to get sound for MP3\'s, sat nav etc. Finally it has a wireless adapter so that the car connects to my home network when I get home. This allows me to transfer logs and maps to my PC indoors and work on map tweeks in the comfort of the study!



Keith

mate that is a tidy set up! very jealous :InLove love that amount of things it can display, i know its what you need to see to map etc but impressive to see in a car.  i hope to see it at some point, if you dont mind let me know what it all cost so i can begin convincing the mrs :Laugh

[Jono FD3]

Well I\'m new to this big IC thingy..... i fired mine up for the first time tonight to set up the base map idle for the power FC. the car was sat stationery for 30 mins at idle going through all the turn your rear heater on for 10 mins etc. the water temp was hovering around the high 90\'s, but there was no air mooving through anything as there has been no breez here today & it was in the back of our drive (Air temp was probaly 18c here today). My inlet temps maxed out at 26c on the commander, just to compair this I took a look at a mates car with a HKS Vmount set up...... in 10mins his air temps were up to 45c just idleing!!!!

Think my custom V-mount should be fairly effective!!

Jono

[antnicuk]

do you have any pictures?

[kbareham]

Finally got a couple of pics - OK, one day I\'ll clean the car....

ITX PC attached to boot liner



Motorised touch screen. My usual datalogit watches are on there - AFR, air temp, knock, water temp, speed and RPM



I still find a trackball useful, even with the touch screen:



Intercooler is 600 * 300 * 100 universal with some brackets welded on:



Aluminium undertray and top tray are sealed to the radiator and intercooler to ensure that the air goes through instead of around them: