Ignition on a 13B

[rx7boy]

well ive emailed them, and they are gonna give me a list of whats required and show me how it would be wired in.

from factory since you only have one leading coil does it run in wasted spark?

that would help work out whats needed

If you are running standard coils then you will need to buy the wasted spark unit. From the wiring diagram you will be able to work out which plug is positive and which is a negative spark and wire it accordingly.

Negative spark systems are better as you get a bigger kernel and it\'s hotter. This is why I decided to go with aftermarket coils. So both are negative.

One issue that I also found was that the wasted spark unit from aquapulsar is rated up to  30kv from the coils,  I never actually found out the power of the standard coils as I decided to change them. this will be something you need to investigate.

They supply either the unit itself or as a kit with the leads (built in diode), I went for the kit as the diodes you need are near impossible to get hold of in the UK.

Prof- I\'m only down in Staines if you want to pop along and check out the unit. It\'s quite simple looking, I went for the x40 unit with a pair of wires, the leads they supply are enormous so will require shortening and rebooting.

I do plan to make a write up about the whole thing once I get a chance to install it and hopefully get it all working.

[Prof]

If you are running standard coils then you will need to buy the wasted spark unit. From the wiring diagram you will be able to work out which plug is positive and which is a negative spark and wire it accordingly.
 
Negative spark systems are better as you get a bigger kernel and it\'s hotter. This is why I decided to go with aftermarket coils. So both are negative.
 
One issue that I also found was that the wasted spark unit from aquapulsar is rated up to 30kv from the coils, I never actually found out the power of the standard coils as I decided to change them. this will be something you need to investigate.
 
They supply either the unit itself or as a kit with the leads (built in diode), I went for the kit as the diodes you need are near impossible to get hold of in the UK.
 
Prof- I\'m only down in Staines if you want to pop along and check out the unit. It\'s quite simple looking, I went for the x40 unit with a pair of wires, the leads they supply are enormous so will require shortening and rebooting.
 
I do plan to make a write up about the whole thing once I get a chance to install it and hopefully get it all working.

I reckon the 30Kv is the max rated value of their blocking diode - so if you run higher ignition voltages than that (some high performance coils or CDI units could do that) then you\'ll need additional blocking diodes in line with the feed from the unit (wired the correct way around )  Stock systems should be fine as they don\'t usually get much higher than that, but a non firing event (mis spark) might have a quite a spikey voltage peak.  Bad ignition circuits don\'t cater for this properly, and the energy stored in the coil has to bully it\'s way back out through the primary and into your igniter - IGBT\'s are ideally suited to this, as you can set a clamping voltage and make the transistor switch on and \'dump\' the stored energy as heat.
 
I quite fancy the idea of using their COP modules, and just designing my own HT supply and simple igniter, since the hard and dangerous part is the circuitry around the HT lead / spark plug and they\'ve safely contained it all into a neat little module

[HaywardRotary]

I am a great beliver in the old adage "If it aint broke don\'t fix it".
We have done uprated ignition on rotaries,but in most instances it just is not needed,stock igniton and a twin power will easily cope with 500hp so save money for the fuel you will use enjoying your driving your car.
Regards
Carl

[jackaleks]

I am a great beliver in the old adage "If it aint broke don\'t fix it".

i guess Felix Wankel was around before people started saying that, or we\'d all be driving some Ford derived engine :p

[BlitzBoy]

I have to agree that at 500bhp at the fly , a good working stock ignition system works fine on a FD.

You only need to improve it when you are near 600bhp levels, big boost and WI

Work out your power goals I say first

[Prof]

I am a great beliver in the old adage "If it aint broke don\'t fix it".
We have done uprated ignition on rotaries,but in most instances it just is not needed,stock igniton and a twin power will easily cope with 500hp so save money for the fuel you will use enjoying your driving your car.
Regards
Carl

It\'s quite possible to get better emissions and better fuel economy, which whilst are not something you\'d be overly worried about on a track / drag / drift car or weekend toy - those rare few idiots amongst us who daily drive our rotaries are interested in improving many things that weren\'t done on the original motor so many years ago. The design for my car is mostly from 1985 or indeed pre 1985, with some alterations to the S5 that came in in 1989 - but there\'s been a hell of a lot of innovations in the automotive world - and why not try and retrofit some of this reliability and know how back onto the rotary motor - if it\'s easy to do and worth the while
 
I liked the look of this over multispark, as it\'s a more elegant approach to the issue of ignition, and it gives the system more oomph for dropping WI in and upping the boost.

[HaywardRotary]

Must be a red letter day Mark, you agreeing with me an all that!

[HaywardRotary]

Hi Prof,
I would say from experience that if you were looking at improved fuel consumption then upgrading igniton will not provide that, but decent mapping definitely can especially during cruise and off boost.
Mazda themselves have consistently found that the closer the fuel injectors are moved to the rotor fuel consumption has gone down,this is due mainly to droplets of fuel often being wasted wetting the walls of the inlet manifold and not vapourising before combustion.
At the end of the day the Mazda wankel engine in it\'s present form is certainly never going to be fuel efficient.

[BlitzBoy]

HAHA dont get too happy Carl lol I actually mentioned before you even posted on this thread that the stock FD ignition is fine at 450 rear wheel hp (re 10th post on this thread) , so its you agreeing with me lol

[HaywardRotary]

:Thumbsup!:wiggle:Giggle:Talking1:2Rolleyes:rolleyes:

HAHA dont get too happy Carl lol I actually mentioned before you even posted on this thread that the stock FD ignition is fine at 450 rear wheel hp (re 10th post on this thread) , so its you agreeing with me lol

:cheers:rollin:Tongue1:D

[Grant Monkhouse]

I have to agree that at 500bhp at the fly , a good working stock ignition system works fine on a FD.
 
You only need to improve it when you are near 600bhp levels, big boost and WI
 
Work out your power goals I say first

which is what i have done, 500fwhp is defiantely looking good for my engine,
 
:Ladys-man Carl:Ladys-man
 
and then hopefully with Carls advice and agreement we can go for more in the future,
 
and hopefully i will persuade Carl to help me tune with copious amounts of water thrown down the engines throat (i know it may not be needed but water is free and racing fuel isnt) and i can build an ignition system that will cope with the WI.
 
Hmmmm 600+HP RX4, now that sounds like a scary idea!! going to need balls of steel and brains of mush to drive that!!:driving:driving:burnout:3gears-rh

[jantore]

I have not ready trough the entire thread but picked up enough.

The stock FD iginition system do work for high boost and high numbers but it will break the engine. Especially if you are running it with a PFC. A freind dynoed 565rwhp with a PFC, stock coils and HKS Twin Power, the engine lasted about 5 000 km before it went boom on the track. Most likely due to ignition problems.

For a EFI system i would not go anything else then with a CDI system for ignition. I have tried alot during the years and had alot of problems.

At the moment i have been running the Autronic 500R CDI with the Crane Cams PS92 coils for 4 years and never had a ignition problem. Im going CDI on my 4 rotor as well for next year, as it\'s eating plugs with the standard bosch coil setup.

I can\'t tell you enough how important it is to have a realy good ignition system for a rotoray engine. The more power and the higher you rev, the better igintion system you need. Esp on turbo engines, as they run quite "rich".

There are several good CDI systems out there that works, but still find something that has been tested and works.

[12at]

If anyones in need of a leading CDI setup i have a dynatek box adn 2 cdi coils that i no longer need

[turbotoaster]

what do you want for them as i was thinking about buying a CDI kit next week

[Mir]

@12at, I m also interested. Pics and price please.

Mir