Ignition on a 13B

[Grant Monkhouse]

Did he? I hadn\'t noticed :rollin Must be feeling a bit short if his reply fitted on a single page, normally has a bit more to say than that lol :rolleyes:
 
Well, if you will keep asking intelligent questions ... unfortunately, this is what happens in the rotary world when people actually want to know the answer to something, all the people with a vested interest in proving that their solution is the best try to shout each other down without pausing to think there may possibly be more than one answer. I\'m only surprised there hasn\'t been an option involving price + vat + delivery + vat on delivery yet . Read, sift out the stabbings and assassinations and there\'ll probably be a nugget or two of truth and good advice in there somewhere.
 
Gotta love what\'s probably the smallest community in the car enthusiast world, and easily the bltchiest :rollin. Keeps me amused anyway. Want some popcorn? No salt. :Thumbs-up

do you have any toffey pop corn? thats my fave. lol
 
i do sift through the info the rotary web community provides, as if i see common factors through peoples advice then thats the bits i get interested in. and research, whether its more from the web, or books, or speaking to people that have done it.
 
i do find it frustrating at times when people get .....y towards people that i have the utmost respect for, i think you can work out who i mean, as this man helped me out more than needed when i killed my FD and has spent many of hours when i have been at his shop sharing his knowledge when he should have been earning some brass.

[Grant Monkhouse]

Flywheel yes,but we have others with more power but i don\'t allways take the dyno sheets.
This is a full bridgeport 13b with Hayward rotary apex seals,GT40/94 turbo,It revs to 10,000 but as you can see it is not needed to go that high.
On the same pattern we have built 6 identical engines that when dynoed all produced just over 500 hp at 1 bar boost so very consistent.

i cant wait to have mine done at only 14 psi then carl.
 
i do beleive you when you say the car is going to be scary, even though i dont sound it over the phone.:D

[HaywardRotary]

forgot to mention on stock coils with HKS twin powers.

[TRIND-FD]

forgot to mention on stock coils with HKS twin powers.

Is that twinpowers as in more than one, or just one twinpower carl.
Reckon your 20b would hit low 8s carl?
No rush though.

Keith

[HaywardRotary]

Is that twinpowers as in more than one, or just one twinpower carl.
Reckon your 20b would hit low 8s carl?
No rush though.

Keith

Hi Keith,
I meant each engine that we did had a twin power on stock coils,whoops.
Yeah the RX3 has already ran a 7 second 1/4 mile in my dreams!

[TRIND-FD]

Will be nice to see Chris run 7s, won\'t be long;)
Come on carl you got 7yrs now to get it finished.

Keith

[BlitzBoy]

Dyno sheet of one of many that we have built that runs in circuit racing.

finally not bad, finally caught up with the rest of us , how many years did it take LOL :chat

Looks a bit peaky though.

Ps Reworx mapped my old spec 430rwhp 505 fly on only a "half" bridge motor at 1 bar a 3-4 years ago , seems you still need full bridge to get over 500 Fly hp at that boost pressure.

Here is when they mapped it at only "10psi" 401 REAR Wheel approx 475 fly, seems I make more power lower down at a lower boost pressure (well out of my turbos efficiency zone at 10PSI) then yours at 14psi, look at the 5k rpm and 6k rpm.

5k I am producing 220bhp at the "Wheels" and Carl you are producing only 200 at the FLY , at 6k  I am producing 300 at the wheels and you Carl are only at 290 at the Fly hmmmm  I wonder what will be faster on the road or circuit, looks like my old engine setup spools better and has a better and broader power band LOL :Ladys-man

Anyway I dont race dynos, see you on the strip when you get your rx3 or a customer of yours goes dragging seriously :wave:InLove

ps my new full bridge only needed 1.15 bar to get 132 terminal would be higher if I changed up to 4th but due to gearing im keeping it in third over the line, plus the new setup has an even quicker spool up

[HaywardRotary]

What you don\'t realise Mark due to your inexperience is that the tuning is done deliberately so that the power increases in a gradual fashion rather than suddenly coming for circuit racing so as not to upset the balance of the car when exiting bends so that it makes it easier for the driver to control. I could easily have it coming in harder lower down.

Oh, and I notice your graph is not really smooth,why is that?

[Grant Monkhouse]

i was wondering that too? i havent ever seen many dyno graphs but Carls does look a lot smoother.
 
what type of ignition was that dyno run done on Mark?

[BlitzBoy]

hahahahahaha I have heard it all now you deliberately made the power curve peaky ...OK Carl what ever you say , dont worry the power was smooth, Reworx didnt waste time fine tuning to make a curve look good on a dyno graph for just 10 psi. Spent the time at higher boost levels.

Ignition same as I have now, Motec ECU, stock ignitors, Bosch Inductive coils for leading,stock trailing

[PGiljevic]

Going back to what the thread is about, im sticking with the FD ignition and twin power

That will not be adequate for all fueling requirements and especially not on a full water injected car. Read my full "blog" as to why on my water injection posts at aquamist.

*I directly test both back to back, on the same set up (not a doctored result either)*

And what the hell happened to this thread?? :spank

[PGiljevic]

Don\'t get confused with a certain power range or terminal speed

The question the OP asked about was water injection and pump petrol in a road going application and part time track car?

In this situation you wont be running a bridge port or 5" dump pipe with one muffler, nor will you be running exotic fuel. You will be running smaller turbo\'s, quiet exhaust and normal petrol. In this case to make high power you will need to run high boost (higher than most mention here) and to have a reliable engine you will be running excess fuel ratio\'s in the order of 40% or more...... All of these requirements stress Inductive based ignition systems to the point that they will not function without problems (be it lack of power, or not working full stop).

This is why Capacitive Discharge was developed, and used with great success in 1970\'s with cars like the Porsche 917/30 (1500bhp anyone? twin turbo 5.4lt 1.5bar boost), in F1 turbo days all cars ran Capacitive Discharge ignition systems, high pressures and lots of fuel dictate massive qty\'s of ignition energy to initiate the spark event. Inductive cant ever match it, and even if you try it still wont make the power of a CD system. What is more important is CD is far more reliable.

Now specific to the OP\'s request.

The HKS DLI system is a cross inductive boost and mini CD system, inductive at low engine speed and CD at higher loads, the problem with it is that it just does not have enough grunt (as I have shown in my own shared info) I did it with a full rewire, new coils, new leads, tested it for over a year............. found its limits (especially on WI at high boost and power, with proven levels of performance) then refitted my CD system and I can tell you its a nigh and day difference :Typing

To Nik the homo! I have NO VESTED INTEREST!
My only interest is imparting real knowledge, first hand!, fully proven, no bull...., just qualified, proven, educated, factual, results! If you can do that same then I encourage you to stand up and show us what the hell you can do beside talk shi7 about me on a forum of all places! I have met many people like you in real life and you I bet just like the others retreat pretty quick when I confront you ........... remember the world is a small place and you never know when you migh meet someone in reality when you least expect it so my advice to you is shut your trap while you still have the option.

[PGiljevic]

Here you go Grant :Thumbsup!

To save a .... fight you can E-Mail me again and I can help you out on a budget version of the CD (no I wont supply it Nik da Gook!!!) I\'ll just help another enthusiast just like I have hundreds of others over 20 years of doing this !!!!

As a few people will know I am going to be running a 13B bridge ported turbo engine in my car, with fuel injection.

Now as I\'m Getting closer to where I need to sort the wiring for the stand alone I want to know what to do with my ignition. I have already bought an hks twin power so I can basically take the ignition set up from an FD and run it with my engine.
I told you what to do and what you will have with either option, put a CDI on it and do it once and do it right!@

I am also wanting to run W/I with my setup so need something that can handle this.
no HKS DLI will not hack it at high boost and high water rates

The easy answer is to just use the twin power, but I have been told about using LS coils as you don\'t need to have an ignighter and provide a good spark for the WI.
YES its easy!, very limited in what you can do though!

I know I should use the search function but if I don\'t know where to start I don\'t know what I\'m looking for.
Deal with real people with real results in the types of cars you run, simple. Forums in general are a hole, so ask people who have cars in the specification you want to run! :burnout

[Mir]

Nice write ups Pete regarding ignition system.... Except what you have said about Nik vice versa (as I dont want to encourage you or Nik to go bitter with each other).

Now to the point, So you are saying that in effect, CDI is a better option compared with Inductive??

Umm I am tempted to go CDI, But do you think it would "OK" to run it on a street car as well? I know your answer, but can you explain why? bearing mind about the traffic etc etc!!

Much appreciate your info..

Mir

[Prof]

To Nik the homo! I have NO VESTED INTEREST!
My only interest is imparting real knowledge, first hand!, fully proven, no bull...., just qualified, proven, educated, factual, results! If you can do that same then I encourage you to stand up and show us what the hell you can do beside talk shi7 about me on a forum of all places! I have met many people like you in real life and you I bet just like the others retreat pretty quick when I confront you ........... remember the world is a small place and you never know when you migh meet someone in reality when you least expect it so my advice to you is shut your trap while you still have the option.

You sir should be banned for threatening people like that - simplez. :Nono!