Well time to start again i think(track car)

[turbotoaster]

im guessing your on about something like this.



running the downpipe on the other side compared to normal means you dont have to wiggle around the steering rack or the wastegate.

i have never seen anyone do it like this but it makes sense to me .

the only issue you may have is it blocking access to the spark plugs

[TRIND-FD]

i see what your saying jon, what temps are you expecting with this set up, want to get mine down if i can,
 
keith

[turbotoaster]

well since its the same as my old intercooler i can give a rough guide on temps.


20psi of boost on stock twins,
10c air temps, 19c intake temp
15c air temp, 24c intake temp

now that wasnt ducted, with proper ducting im not expecting better temps since twins dont flow massive amount of air, but when im running a massive turbo then the ducting should improve over my old setup

also water temps were fine, 82c-83c crusing on motorway, up to 88c when i was pushing hard

[Grant Monkhouse]

im guessing your on about something like this.
 

 
running the downpipe on the other side compared to normal means you dont have to wiggle around the steering rack or the wastegate.
 
i have never seen anyone do it like this but it makes sense to me .
 
the only issue you may have is it blocking access to the spark plugs

that is exactly what i mean!! reduced IC piping. if you put a vband on the exhaust, chnging the plugs wouldnt be a problem. plus you have removed the power steering right? more room for exhaust and access to plugs.
 
only downside means having a custom turbo manifold built, which costs money??

[AtomicRex]

Not to mention the heat transfer to the intercooler etc by running the exhaust pipe past them

[turbotoaster]

that is exactly what i mean!! reduced IC piping. if you put a vband on the exhaust, chnging the plugs wouldnt be a problem. plus you have removed the power steering right? more room for exhaust and access to plugs.
 
only downside means having a custom turbo manifold built, which costs money??

im gonna need a custom manifold anyway since the size of the turbo im going to run.



this gives you an idea of how big im going turbo wise.

im not running power steering, abs or any driver aids at all.

id try to run the downpipe below the plugs but i dont know the fitment until i have a car infront of me to measure up.

in terms of the manifold, ill just make one up out of plastic ducting to get all the shapes and lengths, order some pipework, then get someone to weld it together.

That will be the cheapest way i can think of doing it


as you said jon, you have concern yourself with heat transfer, but saying that, you have a red hot radiator sitting between your downpipe and intercooler so it really shouldnt make a difference.

Of course the intercooler and radiator should never come into contact, i ran 10mm gap between them to stop heat soak which helped.

the only thing you may have to concern yourself is the downpipe heat rising to the inlet pipe from the intercooler to the intake manifold, but you should be wrapping your downpipe or if your feeling rich, coating it to keep the heat away.

[Grant Monkhouse]

Not to mention the heat transfer to the intercooler etc by running the exhaust pipe past them

yes  but dont forget the downpipe is right next to the LIM on a rotary so its heating stuff up there, this is solved with heat shielding, which could be done much easier around the front of the engine, ceramic coating, exhaust wrap, plus the air flow through the engine bay will take the heat away, and i would also imagine heat soak isnt so much a big deal when its a racing car? no stopping and starting in traffic etc

[Grant Monkhouse]

also to stop heat from rising up from the exhaust you could run WI after the turbo too, extra colled air?

[turbotoaster]

also to stop heat from rising up from the exhaust you could run WI after the turbo too, extra colled air?

can you explain that a little grant as what you said doesnt make sense.

running water injection between the intercooler and throttle body will slow the burn process down and lower EGTs but not the the point of stopping heat rising from the downpipe

[Grant Monkhouse]

i just meant conteracting the heat rising from the downpipe up to the IC outlet pipe by just chucking a little extra water in there.
 
in essence you would have pre turbo WI giving huge denser air = more oxygen to burn in the engine, then you have the IC cooling it further, just a little bit, then post turbo WI to further cool air temp, the secondary WI could be activated if a certain air temp is reached.
 
this would be a bit like RIce Racings setup except he uses an external water sprayer to cool his IC if he reaches a certain air temp.
 
this is the only way i can think of adding an extra spray of water for coolling internally as in a race car an external sprayer isnt allowed as it is classed as fluid leaking, obviously you dont tell anyone if you do an external sprayer

[Grant Monkhouse]

even if you were to run your exhaust like were suggesting then heat wrap and adequate ducting would stop any heat from rising to the IC piping, but as stated before its a race car, it wont be sat still long enough to heat soak will it?

[antnicuk]

nice looking build but the intercooler does seem to be a compromise for the power you want. Keeping intake temps low is fairly easy,  its getting one to flow enough air through it and keep temps low.  Even if you kept your core, and just remade the end tanks it would be better.  When its running, put a boost gauge on each side, it will be interesting to see the pressure drop.

You can do as many measurements as you like, it cant measure how something will flow.

[AtomicRex]

I do agree with you that running the twins the intercooler is going to be overkill, but we have made it to Lee\'s request, so it is what it is!
 
Once the bigger turbo is on, I don\'t see the flow being inhibited that badly. But I do agree it would be advisable to put on a couple of pressure sensors and test the pressure drop....that wouldn\'t show the flow though. You can have pressure without flow, as demonstrated with fuel or water systems. And air can be considered to be a liquid, so the same goes there.

[turbotoaster]

one way to look at it is this, if worst case scenerio when im running a massive turbo we find there is a restriction, its just a case of cutting the end piece of the end tank and extending it outwards.

Since it is a replica of my old intercooler that worked so well, im confident that it should be fine, but as you say, if any changes need to be done in the future its not a massive drop

[rbs14a]

there is alot of talk about the cooler here, the thickness of the cooler doesnt mean its going to do a better job than a thinner one of a better internal construction.
if its a cheap chinese one then it wont be all that good as the internal surface area isnt great. on the subject of the end tanks, pointless. why arent they flowed to the bottom of the core? you may as well cut it off where the end tanks finish.
i think youll find most big power rotaries run around 4" cold side pipework