Is this a good idea?

[GaseJo]

Hi all,

I was thinking to myself.!!!!!!!!!!!!

After fitting an Apexi pfc & commander you have to run a learning mode. To my limited knowledge this learning mode adapts to how the car is set up and adjusts itself accordingly while adding a richer fuel setup for safety.

I have a number of bits to put on my car i.e Blitz Nur spec, SMB high flow CAT, V-Mount. Now i have read & been told that adding these bits will need a remap as the base map will be unable to run these mods safley.

My thought are if after fitting these mods can i run the learning mode again, Thus letting the PFC adapt to how the car will be set up while also adding a richer fuel map.

So my question is. Will this be a good idea? is the PFC that adaptable without a professional mapping it manually?

I am not being tight i realise that the best thing is for a professional to do this properly, My thoughts are i would rather fit the bits myself (saving myself a few pennies) Just wondering if this will work in the short term just to be able to drive the car to the garage for a mapping session.

Cheers Garith.

[Timmy]

The self learning part is just it working out how to idle the car and basic stuff i think. You could happily fit those mods and drive it to be mapped just don\'t boost it.

[Sy.]

Will this be a good idea? is the PFC that adaptable without a professional mapping it manually?

Answer in my opinion - a big NO . You mgiht be able to but i would not risk it .

Fit the mods and drive to tuners only . No boost either.

[Brett]

Most learning ECU\'s require a half decent base map to work from anyway, so I really wouldn\'t take the risk.

:wave

[RobbieRX-7]

Just to add, you could fit all your performance mods all in one go, drive to the tuner and get it done, thats what i did. Just dont boost the car, drive it like a granny. If i were in your shoes i would get it mapped on normal 95ron unleaded. Make sure there is no Vpower in the tank at all, just normal stuff. Tell the tuner you have filled the tank with this 95ron and it will definitly without a doubt save you money in the long run instead of keep having to buy Vpower which is quite expensive now. I wish i did this when i got mine mapped, but i didnt think of it at the time so im stuck to using Vpower now.

[GaseJo]

Thanks guy,

RobbieRX-7 i see your point with the fuel but with it being mapped for 95ron instead of Vpower how much power decrease will there be if any? as it is only a fairweather drive (so probably 1 day a year) i dont mind using Vpower if i get more BHP out of it.

The MODS might be on hold now anyway (Water seals might have gone) so i dont want to put it all on just for it to be taken off for a rebuild.

Cheers Garith

[RobbieRX-7]

The tuner will get the most out of 95ron fuel that they can.  It wont be as much power as Vpower but if you feel like putting some Vpower in after it\'s been mapped on 95ron, you will get even more power anyway. I suppose it depends on how much your gonna be driving the car. If it\'s just a weekend car then it\'s upto you, but the trouble with the fd is that it\'s addictive to drive and before you know it, all the expensive Vpower has gone and your filling it up again. I roughly worked it out a few months back........


If you fill up with £20 worth of Vpower, your paying about £2.50 more than you would be with the same amount of litres as 95ron, so £40 worth would cost £5 more and so on. It all adds up and you get used to the vpower map anyway and always want more so it\'s catch22 situation

[GaseJo]

Thanks for the info mate, something to think about.

Cheers Garith.

[arrouk]

or use tesco 99 ron, its cheaper than shell 95 ron.

matt

[Ricco_04]

Well its more like nearly £4 difference for a fill up.  65 liters at 6p/liter more.  For me I use mine all the time and fill it up every 12 days on average!  Take that into account and then its only £120 per year extra for V-power, but for what gains?

Cleaner fuel?  I would suggest that the minerals & cleaners are the same in Shell 95.  Power difference?  Yes but not much.  UK FD had map for 95 fuel AND a large precat but was only 18bhp down on the same year J spec (237Bhp Vs 255Bhp)

Just to throw another spanner in the works, there are less and less hi octane shell stations about, there going all the time - food for thought!

I dont think you will see a benefit from being mapped on 95 and then putting V-Power in. Stock ECU yes but not apexi, could be wrong though???

[RobbieRX-7]

Well its more like nearly £4 difference for a fill up.  65 liters at 6p/liter more.  For me I use mine all the time and fill it up every 12 days on average!  Take that into account and then its only £120 per year extra for V-power, but for what gains?

Cleaner fuel?  I would suggest that the minerals & cleaners are the same in Shell 95.  Power difference?  Yes but not much.  UK FD had map for 95 fuel AND a large precat but was only 18bhp down on the same year J spec (237Bhp Vs 255Bhp)

Just to throw another spanner in the works, there are less and less hi octane shell stations about, there going all the time - food for thought!

I dont think you will see a benefit from being mapped on 95 and then putting V-Power in. Stock ECU yes but not apexi, could be wrong though???

Good point regarding the power difference between jap and uk spec models, i never thought of it that way. IMO i think it\'s negligible and would rarther get more mpg instead of the estimated figure of 18bhp more with Vpower.

I know there are prob folks thinking "well if you want economy, then get a diesel". Thats not the point, i dont want a diesel. I want to keep the fd...just with the best mpg as poss.

It\'s a fact that shell are closing down a lot of stations. I know of 2-3 within a 10mile radius of my house that\'s closed down or been renamed bp in the last 2 years.

As for tesco 99ron. I would if there was a tesco near me that sells it.

[RobbieRX-7]

I reckon it must be less than 18bhp difference. The precat must sap about 8bhp, so the difference in performance between 95ron and Vpower could be as little as 10bhp!

[Ricco_04]

Got to be around that yes

Did I show you the precat that I took off the FD?   Big heavy thing aint it! :Giggle

Your other option of mapping for 95 fuel is that if you did fancy a track day or a bit of dragging then you can always put some V-Power stuff in to give you a little bit more of a safety margin :yes

[Carl]

You don\'t automatically get hp increases by using V power,But by using it you can run higher boost along with more advance in the timing than 95 octane which in turn makes more power.
If it was possible to run the same boost all the time then we would all be tuning for 95 all the time.
The difference with V power over 95 octane is that it burns slower,so more advance in the timing can be put in,and it doesn\'t detonate as easily as 95 octane.
The Apexi ecu does not learn how to cope with mods,it just learns how to adapt to a stockish cars idle settings,the fueling and boost settings do not detect that the engine may need to run a bit richer under boost,that sort of thing has to be tuned by someone who knows what they are doing.
If you want alot of mods such as uprated intercooler and filters and exhaust,then get it proplerly mapped to make the most of it and keep it safe.
If you can\'t afford the mapping then keep the car standard and it will run fine on base map.
Regards
Carl

[GaseJo]

Hi Carl,

I see what you are saying about the Apexi now (having read a few threads about it). My original question was not so much about not being able to afford a map!! (as i know and understand the importance of mapping the car specific to mods fitted). It was more of fitting the mods myself and then re running the learning program to Hopefully make it a bits safer driving it to the mapping session. But as far as i can conclude now from others is that i can fit the mods and aslong as i drive very carefully to the mapping session (NO BOOSTING) then it will be OK. Also most probably wont ever track the car and only drive on good weekend days, What fuel do you suggest i get her mapped on?

Cheers Garith.