full balancing of e shaft rotors and counterweights assembled

[stuart wizy]

had a chat with clive the other day about running high revs with my drag engine and decided to try to get the whole e shaft, rotors and counterweights balanced whilst everythings assembled on the shaft with flywheel on aswell.
Ive already lightened my rotors similar to the way racing beat mill the sides out on theres, but not realizing that this would throw everything out of balance!
thanks clive for kindly informing me on this by the way.
:Thumbs-up
what I cant get my head round is how you can balance a shaft with 2 rotors on, which are ofset to each other when the rotors can spin in any position rotationaly on the shaft.
Ive milled the sides of the rotors like the pic below but ive not gone as close to the side seal groove and outer oil ring groove, ive also found out how much weight racing beat take out of the counterweights for there lightened rotors, which I havent done yet see pics below.

Ive had a word with a guy in manchester who dynamicly balances crankshafts, he said he would have a go with  everything assembled and take the weight of the counterweights to balance the full assembly, the guys never seen an e shaft or rotors before by the way!

my question is how do u stop the rotors spinning of the journals when balancing everything assembled??

[Grizzly]

Here is a pic of a Assembly being Ballanced. (this is manderville\'s ballancing set up)

[DRAGON]

Great idea to have it all balanced. There is no way we could run such high revs without the whole assembly being balanced. Took a lot of time to set-up, but worth it in the end.

[RotorHeid]

every thing balance by bobweight (not rotors itself) etc.. but It\'s cost £300 to balanced,it worth every penny!!

[RotorHeid]

PS ,
have you done snap rings in the rotors gear ring( lock up the gears to stop its walk out at high rev)

[Grizzly]

RPM\'s are all about loosing as Much wight from the Assembly as Poss but as the guy who Did my Ballancing said there int alot of Point in going too mad becouse once the Rotor is Full of oil how do you Account for that in the Prosses?

With mine Oviously having an Extra Rotor and Custom Shaft i have the the Advantage of having a Bearing in each Plate but i belive on 13b\'s you can get to a level where the Cetrifugal force of the Rotor its self can bend the E-shaft and Cause Contact with the Rotor Housing (hence high RPM need the weight reduction, But don\'t forget removing lots of weight will also Reduce the strenth)

[Grizzly]

PS ,
have you done snap rings in the rotors gear ring( lock up the gears to stop its walk out at high rev)

Snap rings are realy handy on NA aplications (long periods of high RPM) i don\'t know why but not many people use them on Turbo\'s? May be becouse of The Turbo producing most of its Power lower down???

[Initial-D]

Theres a few companys in Japan that can supply balanced shafts etc.. for use in high rev applications, I think Revolution racing do them. You can also order a whole block too, although that\'d be a small fortune!

[Grizzly]

I have to admit even though i\'ve had mine done by a Big name engine Builder i\'m intrested how they get round the Oil problem?

[stuart wizy]

hows it going grizly?
that pic looks like the rotors have side plates bolted on each face with allen bolts and big washers if u look closely, this is what I need to know how to keep the rotors from spinning of the journals when balancing but if u think about it the plate clamp setup that holds them on must be fully balanced to, then when u take the clamps or jig of how do u know its still balanced!
do you have a pic of a setup not spinning griz?

[stuart wizy]

Theres a few companys in Japan that can supply balanced shafts etc.. for use in high rev applications, I think Revolution racing do them. You can also order a whole block too, although that\'d be a small fortune!

you can buy a fully balanced shaft, then when u put lightened rotors and counterweights on it your in the same boat,
each rotor is almost a 1lb lighter than stock so in theory you have to take the same amount of the heaviest part of the counterweights.

[Grizzly]

hows it going grizly?
that pic looks like the rotors have side plates bolted on each face with allen bolts and big washers if u look closely, this is what I need to know how to keep the rotors from spinning of the journals when balancing but if u think about it the plate clamp setup that holds them on must be fully balanced to, then when u take the clamps or jig of how do u know its still balanced!
do you have a pic of a setup not spinning griz?

I\'m good..

I do have a Pic of an assembly being rigged up some where (Its a 35mm Pic so i\'ll have to dig it out and Scan it)

You are quite correct, when i spoke to the Guy who did mine he told me that the balancing is a black art and it will never be 100% spot on, even he said he has been doing it years and even know hes not sure he\'s doing it right (i hope he was Joking but thats what he said)

There is Lots of factors to take into account, Whats keeping the Rotor in the correct Place?? (i don\'t see Staitionary gears??) Whay about Oil in the Rotor (this alone will add weight and throw the Ballance out)

[Grizzly]

that pic looks like the rotors have side plates bolted on each face with allen bolts and big washers if u look closely

Do you mean on the Pic i put up? Or the Racing beat one??

[stuart wizy]

PS ,
have you done snap rings in the rotors gear ring( lock up the gears to stop its walk out at high rev)

no ive not done this , just lighten and balance and get the thing running first, I could do though, but u can go on forever and ever.
It looks like a 2mm recess in od of gear and in bore of rotor to let it snap in.
The recess in the od of the gear would have to be quite deep like a piston ring groove to allow it to compress in so you can push it in the bore, then it snaps in the recess in the bore of the rotor,  wouldnt like to try and get  it out though!!!

[stuart wizy]

Do you mean on the Pic i put up? Or the Racing beat one??

the pic u put up looks like the rotors have got allen bolts and big washers on the sides to hold them in position somehow