She\'s still smoking...

[dandan]

Hi all,

right some people may have been reading my rebuild thread (not technically a rebuild) and will know the back story to this, for those that dont, why didn\'t you read my thread?! read this: http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23880
The only reason I didn\'t add this to that thread was to get as much attention as possible.

Well I went out tonight with the intention of letting the car run up to temp so I could assess how she was running.
I topped up the water, added a little oil since it would have fed through to the system since I filled it cold, and turned the key.

The good news is it fired up immediately, hurrah!

The not-so-good news is that it seems to be smoking exactly the same as before. rubbish.

I\'ll try to list as much of what was going on as possible so people can give me their opinions.

ok, 93 FD, the engine is ported, 3mm tips, less than 10k since rebuild, only 47kms on clock.
T78 single turbo just had oil seals replaced, the fins/blades in the hot side (i think) are severely cut down so they don\'t follow the curve of the housing.
Large FMIC, custom intercooler pipes (badly made), stock injectors, stock fuel pump, no regulator, bur9 plugs (i think).
Standard clutch, and rest of drivetrain.
air pump removed, air con removed (by me), polished plenum, water filler etc etc.
Apexi pfc and commander currently reset to base map
Pretty straight through looking exhaust (about 3inch) with only silencer.
Think thats it but feel free to ask questions.

Ok so the car started, idled at 1800rpm, 10% injector duty, and at first I thought the knock sensor was broken but it did wobble a tiny bit after warming up but hardly any at all.
White smoke was immediately coming from the exhaust, not very thick but consistent and it seemed to smell of not much but fuel if anything. From the engine bay, the belts were running reasonably fast (high idle) but there also seemed to be quite a high pitched hissing from the main block, maybe an air type hiss, but its been so long since i listened to a 13b run im not sure if it is normal.

When the water temp came up, the idle started to hunt, and slowly hunted less and less until it settled to around 950rpm, 6% injector duty
Still smoking, and still hissing from the engine bay. also when it was hunting, as the revs went up there was a slight squeak at the start of the rise.

I let it run for a while and it seemed to sit happily, smoking along. The water temp was rising, and when it hit around 106 on the pfc (3/4 on the dash gauge) the fans kicked in, but the temp kept rising, it went up to 115 on the pfc before i decided to switch it off.

Once it was off there was a frying bacon sound coming from under the front of the turbo, and a quieter sizzling noise coming from around the oil filter/leads/fuel lines area.

I couldnt see any leaks, either oil or water, there was some water under the air filter but i think it may have just been a drip as i found some on top of the filet too, prob from the open bonnet lip.

Thats about everything i can think of, trailing and leading were varying around the 23-28 degree degree area, both seemed to have the same figures at the same time though.

So what could it be?
all i can think of is;
Worst case scenario: damaged oil seals in the block = rip it out AGAIN and rebuild properly.
OR
over fuelling somehow causing the smoke, as that is the only thing it really smelled of, although the injector duty seemed about right.
OR
Aliens
OR
Turbo is not installed properly somehow

The only thing to be fixed is the turbo, and the pfc has been reset, and the car is now kicking out smoke exactly the same as before i took it apart, what could it be?

All theories accepted please!

[John Yorke]

I think my first concern would be your water temps, I take it you were not getting the dreaded coolant buzzer? If the fans did not kick in till 100+c I would be re-setting that 1st of all. You did not state how long you had her running, as this was the 1st time starting up I would expect some smoke.
I think you\'d best attack this as follows:
1 Check and adjust the temp the fans come on - should be 80 -85
2 Make sure you burp the system to ensure you have no air in the coolant
3 Go over all the bolts connected to the turbos to ensure you have no leaks
4 Take her out for a run and see if she still smokes
5 If she does, would indicate to me you need a \'propper\' re-build.
hth

[cjr]

is the map sensor plugged in and connected to a vacumn boost source?

[M@r]{]

yeah thats a good point.  Rixio had a smoking issue when we left the Thor day on Saturday - the Thor guys had left the map sensor off (or similar) I believe

The temps could be down to an air lock.

is the map sensor plugged in and connected to a vacumn boost source?

[stuart wizy]

I take it youve just rebuilt and installed the engine.
If you rebuilt it, did u use vaseline to hold the tips and seals in place, did you oil up the faces of the side plates?
my fd smoked for quite a while after rebuild until it burnt the oil and vaseline of.
also if theres any oil on your exahust manifold or turbo then this can also take a while to burn of from initial startup.
as for the hissing you will probably find one or two hoses that could be slightly loose and need tightening up a wee bit as ive found loads of times on re installing different engines.

[dandan]

ok,
map sensor is definately plugged in, its the vacuum pipe to the little black box on the bulkhead that says boost something-or-other on it right? behind the intake elbow sort of area.

The engine wasn\'t rebuilt this time around, just re-installed, so that is no direct reason for the smoking.
The turbo area did produce some smoke immediately on warming up but this soon faded so that seems to be all fine.

The only thing i can think for the water temps is that the car was boxed in on 3 sides by walls so there was no fresh air and no wind, this could perhaps cause the high temp?
As far as adjustong the fan kick-in i thought it was a sensor set to 106 that kicked them in and not something that is adjustable? Tim showed me one at rxmotors a few weeks back, it has 106 printed on the side (or 105 or 104, something around there)

Something Davehg suggested when I spoke to him last night is that it could simply need a good hard drive to clear out the system, the previous owner had a dodgy home made map in the ecu and didnt run it very often, it might just need to have the cobwebs blown out, along with a decent tune?

[nikp]

Well, for my 2 pence worth, i think, as John says, that the water temp situation needs to be investigated more. It\'s worrying that the fans did not go on till 105, and then more worrying that the temp did not come down. The temps got very very hot, but i think you switched off before it was dangerously hot - with pure water the temp it boils at is 129 C. Also, the white smoke suggests coolant too - so this should be investigated first and foremost.

[dandan]

hmm maybe there is a coolant blockage or something somewhere...

Can anyone confirm my thoughts on there being some kind of temp semsor set at around the 106 deg mark, and how would i make the fans kick in earlier? the heat may as i said have been caused by the car sitting in a closed alleyway/driveway, ill try and run it around soon and see if the same happens.

Also i remember when it was switched off and cooling down, there was a egular bubbling noise coming from the coolant tank area, is this to be expected when the system is cooling from very hot?

[nikp]

The confined area should not affect the temps coming down - i.e. even though you were in a confined area, the temps should have come down when the fans came on.

I can\'t recall exactly when the fans kick in. There\'s certainly one speed at which they kick in at 100 C. I think there is the fastest speed that kicks in at 105, but i\'m not altogether sure. If you have the power FC, the datalogit is the only way to go to reduce the temps that the fans come on at.

[Jit]

if you have a pfc, you can set the temperature the fans come on at anyhow cant you?

[nikp]

if you have a pfc, you can set the temperature the fans come on at anyhow cant you?

Temps can be set with the Apexi ECU, but you need the datalogit to do so. You can\'t do it via the commander.

[Jit]

if you have AC in the meantime, you could leave that on so that the fan for that is running? those water temps def sound a touch high - i take it they were taken from the commander? How the car is boxed in shouldnt really play a part....sitting in traffic behid another car is worse!! with all those exhaust gasses heating up the front of your car!
I havent looked at the cooling system on an FD or read about it yet as i havent had time, but could this be a sympton of the stuck shut thermostat (obviously depending on where the stat is located- im guessing its either in or close to the WP housing? and also on wherre the WT sensor is located?)

[nikp]

A thermostat that\'s stuck shut would certainly explain why the fans didn\'t cool the coolant - but not necassarily the smoke.

Dan, do you have a secondary temp gauge like a lot of people do? One that\'s plumbed into the coolant system after the fan? If so, did it register any temps?

[Jit]

where is the stock WT sensor just out of curiosity?

[davehg]

its under the oil filter just down the side of the engine (that sort of area)