Charge cooler vs intercooler pros & cons?

[John Yorke]

Lots of scare mongering going on here:D  The water pump supplied with the power r kit [only one I am qualified to talk about] is a top notch bit of kit I have had mine for the last 4 -5 months [=2.5k miles] and no problems, even with the pump turned off it will only climb to about 60c [normal driving] so, if you do get a failure it is easy enough to limp home.

[20B_boy]

Same here John, have often cruised about with the pump off on Geffs car...no a big deal...

[Wav]

Originally posted by John Yorke
Lots of scare mongering going on here:D  The water pump supplied with the power r kit [only one I am qualified to talk about] is a top notch bit of kit I have had mine for the last 4 -5 months [=2.5k miles] and no problems, even with the pump turned off it will only climb to about 60c [normal driving] so, if you do get a failure it is easy enough to limp home.

John\'s right, it\'s not even remotely as bad as if the OMP pump goes. Now that\'s electric and if that stops working you\'re screwed, but gladly it doesn\'t often go wrong:D My opinion is that charge coolers of the correct capacity and pre-rad size are very good for the strip, but can heatsoak if used for prolonged track/boost use, however the heatsoak may not be as bad as some suggest;)

Paul

[antnicuk]

Si,
(merry christmas)

You cant run less boost than the actuator is set to.  You can run more by bleeding air from the actuator or wastegate but you cant make it open earlier unless you have a weeker spring.

Its not a good idea to disconnect the inlet pipe and run it as a n/a engine as the turbo will have no back pressure on the compressor (engine) side and can over spool.

Geff has prooved the charge cooler kit works,  i seem to remeber Si, that you had some issues getting air from that sexy new front spoiler of yours to the intercooler,  if thats the case then go for the chargecooler,  the rad that comes with the kit is very small if i remember, about 10 or 12 inches square and less than an inch thick.

A couple of options are to use a bigger rad for the water in the charge cooler...  something else to consider is putting something with or instead of water in the charge cooler,  not sure whats available.

As mentioned above i wouldnt take the thermostat out unless you are using the Davis Craig electric water pump with the controller (or similar). I used this on my car,  it worked fine but i wouldnt use it again,  to much grief to fit and too much worrying about wether the pump was working.  Demon Tweeks state a 2000 HOUR life span.  I put an led in the dash to indicate if the pump failed but still more hassle than the benifits.  The main benefit was being able to turn the ignition on, so the water pumped round the engine while the engine was off, turn the fans on and cool the water really quickly while you were waiting in traffic or on the start line!
I tried mine with and without the controller or thermostat, i found that for 8 months of the year, the car wouldnt get upto temperature unless you sat in traffic, on the motorway in november the temp was 50 degrees, that means that your ecu thinks your on choke and adds fuel/increases idle accordingly. An engine is more efficient at highjer temps and as Mike says, designed to run at certain temps,  (the mazda thermo opens at 83 degrees), if you have car that is used for racing where you can set the ecu to run at cooler temps its different.  I like my cars to have a heater!! cant demist the window other wise.


Just out of interest, how much are these charge cooler kits going for?

[bill shurvinton]

re: Davies Craig pumps... If you average 30 miles per hour, then 2000 hours is 60,000 miles. Not exactly a replace at every service part.

Charge coolers are well proven on a number of OEM applications from Lotus Esprit through sierra cosworth. You have to look at the sort of use you are putting the car to before you decide what you want. With a charge cooler you are relying on the thermal intertia in the water to give you a smaller radiator for the intercooler. Perfect for a quick blast up to 150 on an empty stretch of dual carriage way and then behave for a few miles. Less good for a 4 hour endurance race.

For bonneville you generally have 10 gallons of ice water in the back somewhere and hope it won\'t boil before the end of the run.

You have to pick the compromise that best suits the sort of driving you do and the depth of you wallet. In the case of the escort cossie, the charge cooler acted as a charge warmer in 95% of normal driving circumstances.

But here is a Christmas thought. Methanol, injected at a stoichometric ratio cools the intake charge by 150°C. In fact it cools so well that you generally can\'t vapourise all of it by the end of the compression stroke.

[rx7veilside]

bill lost me a bit but are u saying water injection using water/methanol mix is better for cooling the inlet temp

[fro]

He certainly is

Have you ever seen drag racers who run (pure) methanol spraying something into their inlets before a run... that\'s de-icer


merry xmas everyone

[fro]

I forgot to mention... methanol\'s really corrosive isn\'t it?

[sdminus]

Si
unless u gonna drag race full time u might as well stay with a intercooler. get a wi system or a nx ntercoler syetem in addition.
my thoughts any ways
scot

[bill shurvinton]

Originally posted by sdminus
Si
unless u gonna drag race full time u might as well stay with a intercooler. get a wi system or a nx ntercoler syetem in addition.
my thoughts any ways
scot

And I thought I had been drinking heavily today!