Liquid charge cooling vs Air Intercooler

[leeroy_25]

I am still pondering what way to go with the set-up on my 20B.. I have to factor  cost of course but also I am factoring packaging and efficiency.
My current \'plan\' is to mount 2 small intercoolers where the FD oil coolers are normally located. I will then have a clear air path to both the Rad which will be mounted at a steep angle in the front near OEM mount points but steeper angle. I will then probably mount the oil cooler in the upper part of the front bumper or in a shallow V adjacent to the water rad.
A few questions have been posed as to whether my intercooler set-up is going to work well or not? It is not larger than having one big front mount really. Extra pipework to connect up for sure and one fairly long length just over a metre to connect from side to side?
So I have been looking at other options. One mentioned was a liquid charge cooler. I am not too familiar with these and not too sure if it will really gain me anything? I gather with these you then have to package another radiator, header tank and pump on top of the charge cooler. Do they cool significantly better than air coolers? I.e can they be made significantly smaller than traditional coolers? How do you go about sizing one?

Interested to hear all your thoughts!

Lee

[Grant Monkhouse]

I have a charge cooler setup on my rx4, it is the biggest cooler you can get from PWR. The thing you need with a CC is a large volume of water in the system. If the cc and volume of water is too small you will just heat soak it and it will never cool.

You need an electric water pump which you can have running permanently.

I have mounted the cc Rad at the rear of my car under the boot at an angle scooping air up. Also mounting fans on there too.

In essence an air cooler is simpler and lighter, however if you get the setup right on the cc system you will have amazing air temps and can get them below ambient if you use ice water, for drag racing or even track racing.

[Brett]

Whats the coolant volume in your CC system Grant?

[marf]

I\'ve got a Celica ST205 CC setup on my MR2. Comparing my intake temps to someone with the same mods but with an upgraded side mount, my temps are lower and more stable.

Many Celica owners ditch the CC for an FMIC, but to fit the radiator up front the MR2 necessitates a longer piping run than on the OE celica system, increasing coolant capacity from 7 litres to over 10. I guess this is kinda the reverse of your setup Grant, cooler in the back and radiator up front :Laugh

Running a rearmount radiator on the FD would likely be problematic, nowhere for it to go without butchering the floor I reckon, as such you\'d probably want a water tank somewhere to increase coolant capacity.

[Grant Monkhouse]

Whats the coolant volume in your CC system Grant?

Not sure, might have to get a jug and check., its not the volume of water in the cc I\'m talking about but the whole system, pipe work and rad Included.


Water is better for cooling, Fact, and if you get it right you will have constant air temps and no fluctuation.

A header tank can be used to fill with ice, or even better dry ice, to cool the water after the rad. This will give sub ambient temps and more POWAAAAH!

[Grant Monkhouse]

You can run a cc rad up front, a guy in the states is doing it. He has a great fan set up, and has even had to use a smaller engine rad as the fans were cooling the engine temps too much.

Here\'s the thread http://m.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=1004921

[marf]

Interesting, thanks

[Grant Monkhouse]

No problem. He\'s going to be running some serious power too, gt45 semi pp and street ported!

[marf]

You\'ve got me thinking about a nice PWR chargecooler setup now

[Grant Monkhouse]

Like this, 1200hp flow capable CC?

[marf]

Is nice... I like!

What power are you running and what sort of AITs are you seeing?

[Grant Monkhouse]

Not running yet:( but going off the outside temp right now -2! Lol.

I\'m going to be running pre turbo WI with that too so I don\'t think air temps will ever be an issue:D

I would have gone with an air to air cooler but wanted something a bit different. My cc was run on reworx rx8 drag car.

[rx7boy]

From speaking with a few tuners/drivers

Charge coolers are great if you are doing short bursts of power runs such as drag racing or short hill climb, the water has fantastic heat absorption properties when it is cold.
The long term use of them however is where they reach their limit. The water heats up and even with a huge radiator they will never drop the temp down below what a air to air cooler can in a reasonable amount of time.

This is why you see big charge coolers on drag cars, as they load them with ice or even liquid co2 to increase their efficiency. Personally with all the additional aggravation of pipework,additional radiator and pump why not just use a decent made intercooler core.

Kimi has a HKS v-mount on her car and air temps on cruise are seriously low. During a recent mapping session they never went above 8*c even under 4 power runs.

[12at]

wouldnt bother with a pwr barrell have seen some cars setup for drag racing with big autos and some manuals with inlet temps over 100deg C..
 
not worth it when a good bar and plate cooler will do the same and to be honest the weather we have here in the UK i dont see any benefit.

[Grant Monkhouse]

If you get the system setup right and enough volume of water inthe system then it will never heat up. My car is primarily a drag car, however I will be using it for weekends blasts.

You say using a huge rad in a cc system doesn\'t make any difference? With a cc you are not trying to cool the water from 90Celcius like an engine rad has too, with a cc rad you need it to be able to cool the water from lower temps, 40Celcius and lower so you actually require a thinner rad to get the temp down.

The large volume of water in the piping system is where you gain the best effect of a large volume of water, as heat energy tries to disperse it own energy by heating up the surrounding area/water lowering the temps, this dissipated heat then further dissipates when it goes through the rad.

The rad I am using may actually be too thick for its purpose, I will know this once I run the car and log temps etc. if so I will try another one:)

Another important factor is that you run fans on the cc rad, constantly, it\'s a no brained really.

All this being said a normal air cooler is simpler, cheaper and quicker. I just want to have something from the norm.

Also the total volume inside my intake system and cc is actually less than it would have been using an air/air cooler and smaller diameter pipe work:D