Rad and intercooler set-up for 20B FD3

[Grant Monkhouse]

You won\'t be stressing the motor at 500-600 HP. You don\'t need studding dowelling etc. I\'m going to be at 500hp with my 13B and I haven\'t done anything like that and I will be stressing my engine more than you are.

I think the herblennys thread is in the members section so you won\'t be able to see that as a guest.

The stock exhaust ports will be fine, they are a pain to swap over too and take a lot of time and car swapping out. Only get it done if if your builder says so. Personally I wouldn\'t. Big power can be made with a stock block.

Do you know what code you your engine is?

[Grizzly]

You won\'t be stressing the motor at 500-600 HP. You don\'t need studding dowelling etc. I\'m going to be at 500hp with my 13B and I haven\'t done anything like that and I will be stressing my engine more than you are.

I think the herblennys thread is in the members section so you won\'t be able to see that as a guest.

The stock exhaust ports will be fine, they are a pain to swap over too and take a lot of time and car swapping out. Only get it done if if your builder says so. Personally I wouldn\'t. Big power can be made with a stock block.

Do you know what code you your engine is?

Yeh but the 20b has longer through bolts and crank, they suffer more from things like Harmonics and Crank flex. But don\'t take it from me find some one who IS running a big hp Turbo 20b.

20b\'s where not designed for big power they where designed for Torque hence why you dont see Manual Cosmo\'s  Bit of a Mith a 20b can make 700hp with nothing done to it internaly the wise people dont run much more than 500hp on a stock block.

[Grizzly]

Hi Grizzly,
Thanks for the heads-up. I mentioned those odd shape ports above and when I rebuild I will speak to my tuner about swapping them for 13B ones or other options. I plan to get it running as it is now and then strip it down and overhaul the motor at which point I will look at possible doweling/bracing for the block. My tuner will certainly be able to advise on that too. Geff from Reworx.
I have already been thinking about other bracing methods instead of dowelling.
Also I imagine how you mount the engine to begin with probably has an impact n this. i.e solid mounts. whether it\'s mounted front and rear. Whether you let the motor twist or try and stop it and so on. I was actually going to start a thread on that at some point an see different peoples views.

Give Pip at WGT a bell, he seems to have done allot of 20b\'s in the past not saying ReWorx can\'t help you but Pip is well set up for Long blocks.

[Grizzly]

Do you know what code you your engine is?

This is Important because most 20B\'s are old tech and have second gen unhardened Statonary gears etc, need to know what your doing, You dont want to blow up a 20b My advice is do your Home work

The stock exhaust ports will be fine, they are a pain to swap over too and take a lot of time and car swapping out. Only get it done if if your builder says so. Personally I wouldn\'t.

Seriously? Two roll pins? if the motor is apart they are aquard yes but if you have the nack easy, saves cutting the defusers out. IMHO if you are winding the power up you need to get rid of the defusers to stop them breaking off and killing your turbo (Saftey mod) if there not there there is no risk

[colum]

Seriously? Two roll pins?

never tried to get sleeves out then? :Giggle
Mazda actually developed the sleeves in the 20b to increase tourque but the dont flow too well, ive used 13b housings in mine as i couldnt be arsed to dick about with the 20b sleeves.

geff does not work at reworx anymore dude, just chris.

as for strengthening a 20b, you\'ll get 500 out of a stock block before it starts cracking plates

what code is your block? if its an A block, just run it as is with low boost as i wont be worth you spending money on it no matter how hard you try you crack the front and thick iron.

b blocks aint much better but they\'ll respond to boost more positively

c

[Grant Monkhouse]

you can strengthen the block other ways without dowelling the block.
 
colum can you point leeroy in the right direction for his IC and rad setup? just to get the thread back on track?

[Grant Monkhouse]

Interesting.. Although I am on the stock exhaust ports presently I have read lot of people swap them out for 13B ones for better exhaust flow?!
I did a bit of google and from what I can find I think my Holset should be around 1000cfm flow rate. Although it is not a bone standard off the shelf unit. But it should be in that ball park. What CFM does a 20B need for the power I am looking at? How are you supposed to work that out?
I can\'t find a build thread for herblenny? and I see he is not in the UK! I searched his user name too?
 
Cheers
Lee

1000cfm / 14.27 = 70lbs/min air flow
my turbo flows 78lbs/min which is 1113cfm and should max out around 600hp so maybe im thinking your turbo is a bit too small for your 20B however this is just theory. i should imagine it will be a great street driven turbo though:Thumbs-upi would have gone for a GT42 personally. 85lbs/min
 
what you need to realise is that even at 500HP your going to have a tonne more torque than 13B guys so it will be an unbelievbly fast car.
 
now intercoolers...
 
im sure i have a couple of books that give calcultation for IC sizing but in all honesty by the time you have worked that out it all goes to pot by using bends and piping length. PWR make good ICs and CCs maybe est emailing them, i have done this a number of times and they have been very helpful, to find out what they think would suit you best for your turbo and engine.
 
or do it the easy way and copy what IC other people hve used:Thumbsup!

[colum]

and apexi gt for an fd and a koyo nflow radiator will do you fine if you are running an fd waterpump assembly with a better flowing thermostat

id think about oil cooling more on a 20b tbh

[Grizzly]

never tried to get sleeves out then? :Giggle

Yeh mate, Done quite a number and when i was living in US saw a whole lot more done by a master. There are two or three ways of doing it, Grind them out (grind the inside of the Old sleave so the pin taps out and the corner of the old scrap 13b housing) or as i was shown to do it get a thin nail (half the dia of the roll pin hole) and tack it to the end of the Pin with a welder (bit of a nac to it and a couple of tricks, just make sure you dont weld across the split) then carfully slide hammer it out. Not hard it just takes a bit of playing until you master it

Yes have had some experiance with this.

Of course fitting 13b Housings would be the best way round it but also costly if your 20b ones are good (o and they don\'t say 20b on them any more )

[Grizzly]

you can strengthen the block other ways without dowelling the block.
 

Who said anything about dowling? i think Dowls weaken blocks personaly go for 12mm Studs it would just cost you in Engineering but much stronger imho.

[Grizzly]

and apexi gt for an fd and a koyo nflow radiator will do you fine if you are running an fd waterpump assembly with a better flowing thermostat

id think about oil cooling more on a 20b tbh

This ^

Just Copy a 5-600hp 13b but with a bit of extra Oil cooling.

[Grizzly]

what you need to realise is that even at 500HP your going to have a tonne more torque than 13B guys so it will be an unbelievbly fast car.
 

Honistly and i\'m not trying to put you off, a 500hp 13b will be as quick/Quicker next to a 500hp 20b, Torque makes it more every day frendly with plenty Low down grunt so will drive better on the road but the extra nose weight/MPG/Cost of 20b Parts will not help your cause if your planning on using in on the track or fast road.


But the Noise is worth the extra Money IMHO

[Grant Monkhouse]

Honistly and i\'m not trying to put you off, a 500hp 13b will be as quick/Quicker next to a 500hp 20b, Torque makes it more every day frendly with plenty Low down grunt so will drive better on the road but the extra nose weight/MPG/Cost of 20b Parts will not help your cause if your planning on using in on the track or fast road.


But the Noise is worth the extra Money IMHO

That\'s what I meant, 20B for fast road car and and every day driving, which I think leeroy wants.

[Will66]

A 500 bhp 13b will reach the end of the drag strip at about the same time as a 500 hp 20b but on the road or a circuit it\'ll have a much wider power band and be far more friendly to drive.

[leeroy_25]

Thanks for all the replies guy\'s that was a lot of catching up to do!
Regarding my block from memory it is a B series one. I remember when I started looking I researched this and new to stay away from the A\'s.
I know Geff outside of work so keep in touch with him now and then. Don\'t want to bother him with every question I have though hence my post. And also good to get more than one opinion and see other options.
If I need to change any internals I can look into that at the point of build if they are available. Housing wise I do have a spare 13B block so could consider swapping them out should it be deemed necessary.
Turbo size wise thanks for your info Grant. I guess time will tell. As I said before I have a hunch it may turn out tobe just to small. If so I will have to swap it out for something a bit larger or change a housing? I might e-mail the guy I got it from later and see if he can confirm the flow rate. I cannot do a whole lot until I try it now anyway. The idea is to have the most responsive car I can to meet my power goal.

Cooling wise I will take a pic of the oil cooler I have over the weekend and post that. RAD wise it has been suggested elsewhere about using a RAD from a modern 400bhp ish car like a BMW or something as they should have the extra cooling contigency to cope with a 600bhp motor? Any thoughts on that. Other than that I think I am with an N-Flow as mentioned by colum. Is there a big difference between that and a standard flowing rad?

Colum, You also mention abotu a better flow thermostat? I am on the FD waterpump but wil remove the filler neck assembly to replace it with a plain elbow of sorts. Is there a particular lowe temp/high flow stat I should be getting?

Cheers for all the info though.

Lee