rx8 20v turbo motor swap

[Grant Monkhouse]

They are on American dynos though. Don\'t they give higher figures?

[oyvindjs]

They are on American dynos though. Don\'t they give higher figures?

depends. They use both dynapaks and mustang dynos now, and majority of posts on the dyno-papers now either state what dyno is used, or its being asked for by another person posting in that thread.
Cant remember wich dyno that gives more or less hp, but they now do recalculate this to compensate for the different dynos.  There is a dyno thread on RX7club where a dude tests the BNR setup on both dynos to get some numbers on this, but cant find it right now.

US ppl are more aware of this now than we euros might think

[jetpilot]

Turblown setups are producing peak power comparable to majority of turbocharged 13Bs. Honestly, 90% of Rx-7 people didn´t breach that self imposed limit of 15 psi boost, limiting them to around 400 rwhp. Turblown GT35R kit on Renesis does it at 10 psi...

I looked into this long and hard when i was torn between getting back into an Fd or going for a Rx8, about 6 months ago. The most i could see people getting in 8\'s was 300hp, limited by the new i think, centre porting, to meet emissions, so not sure where you get your 400 rwhp from as i couldnt find anything close to that!

[Will66]

Most people going FI were getting 300 bhp on 8 psi and standard fuel systems before people were pulling engines apart, if you uprate the fuel system and have the engine rebuilt with forced induction in mind then you can make very good power.  Brilliant chassis too, the structure is very stiff and it changes direction brilliantly.  Turblown\'s kit\'s not perfect but it makes good power, I\'d like to see it work with an OMP as that should be beneficial to side-seal life.  

Personally I like the stock engine, it doesn\'t feel that fast but it thrives on massive revs and takes a lot of abuse and the chassis lets you carry speed and revs through corners so you can get round tracks nice and quickly, sure it doesn\'t last as long as some piston motors but if I wanted something that lasts forever I\'d have an old skool transit diesel engine (like my smoker).

[oyvindjs]

Turblown\'s kit\'s not perfect but it makes good power, I\'d like to see it work with an OMP as that should be beneficial to side-seal life.  

In rews, decent premixing(2%) together with AI, keeps side seals in perfect condition. Any reason it should not work on Renesis engines? Im askin cause i have no knowledge of the renesis other than the basics on it. Im a Rx7/cosmo man.

[Miki]

They are on American dynos though. Don\'t they give higher figures?

There are so many types of dynos that you can´t even remotely do such generalization.  Every dyno print out is usually posted with correction for temperature and pressure, but in case of turbo cars, it can skew everything, as turbo does compensate for lower pressure etc. Its just to many variables... Yes, dynojets are considered to give over-inflated numbers, but usually they are very consistent. This power was done on dyno dynamics machine, which is considered to read low. But it doesn´t matter, mass flow numbers are telling the story about power, not boost.

The most i could see people getting in 8\'s was 300hp, limited by the new i think, centre porting, to meet emissions

Exhaust porting does limit the power potential, but no where in the way you see it and not at this power level;) Only reason why most people on Renesis aren´t getting much over 300 HP is small turbo of Greedy kit itself and also the fact, that they aren´t shooting for much more than that. Mazdamaniac and many others were producing over 400 HP years ago, they just didn´t bother to have argument with non believers:Typing

so not sure where you get your 400 rwhp from as i couldnt find anything close to that!

Here you go. If you wan´t to point out, that its done with top mount setup, they are releasing low mount in near future which will be able to utilize turbo capable of such power.:3gears-rh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJyyaOL2dT4

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=200371&page=4

Turblown did much more work lately, including Renesis with GTX4294R at 37 psi... granted, with E85. It was spinning wheels at 14 psi... He didn´t released power numbers yet, since as you can see, they´ve just started the tuning. Fuel flow indicated over 550 rwhp...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9OTL5uMXYc

[jetpilot]

There are so many types of dynos that you can´t even remotely do such generalization.  Every dyno print out is usually posted with correction for temperature and pressure, but in case of turbo cars, it can skew everything, as turbo does compensate for lower pressure etc. Its just to many variables... Yes, dynojets are considered to give over-inflated numbers, but usually they are very consistent. This power was done on dyno dynamics machine, which is considered to read low. But it doesn´t matter, mass flow numbers are telling the story about power, not boost.

Exhaust porting does limit the power potential, but no where in the way you see it and not at this power level;) Only reason why most people on Renesis aren´t getting much over 300 HP is small turbo of Greedy kit itself and also the fact, that they aren´t shooting for much more than that. Mazdamaniac and many others were producing over 400 HP years ago, they just didn´t bother to have argument with non believers:Typing


Here you go. If you wan´t to point out, that its done with top mount setup, they are releasing low mount in near future which will be able to utilize turbo capable of such power.:3gears-rh
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJyyaOL2dT4

http://www.rx8club.com/showthread.php?t=200371&page=4

Turblown did much more work lately, including Renesis with GTX4294R at 37 psi... granted, with E85. It was spinning wheels at 14 psi... He didn´t released power numbers yet, since as you can see, they´ve just started the tuning. Fuel flow indicated over 550 rwhp...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9OTL5uMXYc

So why is everyone else complaining about the limiting factor of the side ports, but these guys have 450rwhp on a standard block out of a gt35r, which most running that turbo on fd\'s in this country are around 100hp less?

Sorry buddy, i have heard before how usa dynos over read compared to ours and think those 2 links are testament to that, if that Rx8 has 450rwhp and doesnt spin the wheels, its over reading on the dyno!

[Miki]

So why is everyone else complaining about the limiting factor of the side ports

Because they are just talking from their a$$?:2Rolleyes They don´t have any credibility and knowledge to claim such thing. As any port, it does poses certain restriction -not limit. Higher brake mean effective pressure also means higher blowdown pressure. Again, I have to repeat it, its restriction, not limit. I´m sure you think even REW needs to be ported for huge power?:o Sorry that I´m harsh, but I see fundamental misunderstanding how things work...

but these guys have 450rwhp on a standard block out of a gt35r, which most running that turbo on fd\'s in this country are around 100hp less?

GT35R has potential and produced over 500 HP on rotary platform. Renesis despite what you heard about exhaust ports flows very much and peak power happens at higher rpms than on REWs with stock intake. It all helps to produce very high power, even at low boost. And I dont have single reason to doubt these results. Stock car has peak airflow around 220-250 g/s. This one has over 450 g/s. Its 60 pounds per minute of air - easily over 450 HP. Dyno is just tuning tool, but these numbers are totally valid.

If you would try to be at least a bit open minded and readed through that thread, you would know that manifold design and large turbine are even more important on Renesis than on older engines. Almost every attempt to turbocharge Renesis was done with very small turbines. Once few individuals build manifolds to support bigger hotsides, power went up rapidly.

Exhaust port flow is based on pressure difference across it. Relieving pressure after the port is the key - proper hotside for power level. Guess how much power you would made with Greedy turbo on 13B-REW? I hope you see the point...

[Will66]

In rews, decent premixing(2%) together with AI, keeps side seals in perfect condition. Any reason it should not work on Renesis engines? Im askin cause i have no knowledge of the renesis other than the basics on it. Im a Rx7/cosmo man.

I think it\'s a disadvantage of the side exhaust ports, the side seals get hotter and the OMP spray cools them better.

I think Turblown are the only people who are looking at bigger turbos for the RX8.  Given the sort of numbers that are coming from UK turbo cars, RE:Worx dyno\'d a Greddy Kitted car at 340 bhp at 8 psi on their small turbo kit back in 2008 and Tony\'s Supercharged car dyno\'d at 330 bhp at 8 psi on TDI\'s dyno after he\'d had his HKS FCON V mapped then I reckon there\'s something in these figures of around 400 rwhp on bigger blowers with more boost and fuel.

[Grant Monkhouse]

Anyway you should get one of the v16 quad turbo 60 litre diesel engines I heard running on Monday!!! The tickover sounded like a seriously heavy cammed V8!!! Best sounding diesel ever

[oyvindjs]

I think it\'s a disadvantage of the side exhaust ports, the side seals get hotter and the OMP spray cools them better.

AI will again lower the whole combustion temp and will help abit on the temps.
How bout 1/2oz per gallon premix + OMP redirected from crankcase-pump to external reservoir?
Clean, unpolluted oil + internal washing from AI = happy engine?
throwing out thoughts here.

[Will66]

V16 quad cam turbo 60 litre diesel?  I think that\'s a bit too much of an ask even for tinker-27\'s mad skillz.  I\'m guessing the engine weighs about 2 tonnes at least!

Screaming Diesel anyone?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvVoJw1LUmY

@oyvindjs not a bad idea but I think the problem is the turbo manifold goes too close to the OMP and the oil lines.  I like the way you think though!

[Grant Monkhouse]

Not really, could just stick bits of car on the engine and let the turbos move the whole with the amount of air they are sucking!!

[oyvindjs]

@oyvindjs not a bad idea but I think the problem is the turbo manifold goes too close to the OMP and the oil lines.  I like the way you think though!

External heat issues are of a less concern
Ceramically treated exhaust housing and manifold, and a Mica-treated heatshield between intake and exhaust + turbo, with room for airflow(no contact). Works like a charm.

[Will66]

That would work!  Not cheap though.  The time may come when I want a bit more pace, but it\'s not any time soon, and I keep an eye on the developments just in case!