How Many 1st Gens Still Running?

[syebba]

This is what the ad says on ebay:-
"THE CAR WAS FITTED WITH A JAP IMPORTED TURBO WHICH THE ENGINE TURNS OVER".
 
Could this be a Supercharger? Or am I reading too much into the words? Comments Guys?

Nah,think they mean the engine physically turns over by hand.

[syebba]

I wouldn\'t say it looks like it from the photos, but the engine bay photo is pretty poor.
 
If the bloke would respond to my txt, I\'d be over there digging around taking more photos for you guys!

Ha, some peeps are beyond explanation,they place an advert,then can\'t be assed to respond to enquiries.Simples don\'t place an advert then.

[Steve-A]

Yeh, if you\'re not gonna respond to txts then don\'t put \'txt or call\' in your advert. Was 3 days ago I sent him a message saying that ebay said I was less than 5 miles from this car and that I wanted to have a look.

[CHC (RIP)]

 
 
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.!

The car is awesome and is even better close up - 1 of 12 apparently.

[RamoNZ]

Ha, some peeps are beyond explanation,they place an advert,then can\'t be assed to respond to enquiries.Simples don\'t place an advert then.

You can see the red viscous fan in the engine bay which was a hallmark of the factory 12A Turbo, by the looks of things it has been converted to SU carby - they were all injected/non intercooled from the factory.

[David Nock (RIP)]

That\'s interesting Ramon. I\'ve never considered how factory turbo\'s were put together before. I presume Elford had some sort of \'No Sale\' agreement here on the Jap units (to protect their business)?

[RamoNZ]

I quoted the wrong person! That actually makes no sense in my context...
 
Anyway, the Elford is a \'draw-through\' design in which the carb is mounted on the turbo inlet and the fuel/air mixture is compressed - intercoolers on this type of design are a big no-no due to the fuel condensing inside the intercooler and essentially making a bomb if there were a backfire.
 
This beauty above, has the same blow through design as the factory turbo, but using an SU - I figure someone bodged the 2 kits together as it looks a bit home-made but uses a similar carb. I suspect they did this to avoid having to wire in the factory ecu or perhaps it was bought with out it for cheap. Def a factory turbo though, the red fan is the giveaway.
 
I doubt there was any such factory agreement on that part, the factory 12AT was sold only in Japan so even rotary friendly NZ/OZ and the US didnt get one. More likely the UK sales asked, were told no, and got Elford to start building them. I believe the factory turbo was superior on all accounts anyway - being fuel injected - but dont flame me if you dont think so (Ian)
 
Anyway, enough waffle from me...

[syebba]

You can see the red viscous fan in the engine bay which was a hallmark of the factory 12A Turbo, by the looks of things it has been converted to SU carby - they were all injected/non intercooled from the factory.

Thx Ramonz a clear & concise reply in response to peeps posting adverts & not replying to enquiries.:evillaugh
ta stu..

[CHC (RIP)]

I quoted the wrong person! That actually makes no sense in my context...
 
Anyway, the Elford is a \'draw-through\' design in which the carb is mounted on the turbo inlet and the fuel/air mixture is compressed - intercoolers on this type of design are a big no-no due to the fuel condensing inside the intercooler and essentially making a bomb if there were a backfire.
 
This beauty above, has the same blow through design as the factory turbo, but using an SU - I figure someone bodged the 2 kits together as it looks a bit home-made but uses a similar carb. I suspect they did this to avoid having to wire in the factory ecu or perhaps it was bought with out it for cheap. Def a factory turbo though, the red fan is the giveaway.
 
I doubt there was any such factory agreement on that part, the factory 12AT was sold only in Japan so even rotary friendly NZ/OZ and the US didnt get one. More likely the UK sales asked, were told no, and got Elford to start building them. I believe the factory turbo was superior on all accounts anyway - being fuel injected - but dont flame me if you dont think so (Ian)
 
Anyway, enough waffle from me...

 
Very interesting waffle though

[Ian65]

I quoted the wrong person! That actually makes no sense in my context...
 
Anyway, the Elford is a \'draw-through\' design in which the carb is mounted on the turbo inlet and the fuel/air mixture is compressed - intercoolers on this type of design are a big no-no due to the fuel condensing inside the intercooler and essentially making a bomb if there were a backfire.
 
This beauty above, has the same blow through design as the factory turbo, but using an SU - I figure someone bodged the 2 kits together as it looks a bit home-made but uses a similar carb. I suspect they did this to avoid having to wire in the factory ecu or perhaps it was bought with out it for cheap. Def a factory turbo though, the red fan is the giveaway.
 
I doubt there was any such factory agreement on that part, the factory 12AT was sold only in Japan so even rotary friendly NZ/OZ and the US didnt get one. More likely the UK sales asked, were told no, and got Elford to start building them. I believe the factory turbo was superior on all accounts anyway - being fuel injected - but dont flame me if you dont think so (Ian)
 
Anyway, enough waffle from me...

good interesting stuff!
The red fan could have been added retrospectively.... I have an Elford turbo that came with a red fan... obviously fitted sometime in the past when the original fan gave up the ghost.
The reason mazda didn\'t sell the factory 12at worldwide was down to reliability concerns.
The company had fought hard to overcome the publics reservations about reliability of the rotary engine and had concerns about how it would stand up to being boosted. They therefore restricted its sale to the JDM market only, never releasing it overseas where any potential engine problems would destroy its hard earned reputation.....  they were happy to authorise the likes of Elford though as any problems would fall back into Elfords lap and tarnish their reputation, not Mazdas.
As far as I\'m aware, Elford started developing them off their own bat and only got Mazda approval after they were tried and tested.
I\'ve read plenty about the Elford actually outperforming the factory 12at but who knows?!   I\'ve never seen one let alone driven one although I\'d love a dabble in one.
Mappable EFI against the simplicity of the suck through carb job.... !
The factory 12at did have better suspension, lighter rotors and lower compression ( so more scope for boost) though.... a nicely engineered car as you\'d expect from the factory.

[johnnyboy]

 

All the discussion was getting to me. I wanted to KNOW.....

So I phoned the guy.

His name is Steve. He is a builder and was on top of a roof repairing the lead flashing around a chimney. He apologised for not always answering his phone on the grounds that sometimes you just need your hands to hold on with....

Seemed a very nice bloke.

The story is:
Back in the day Steve was a bit of an "automotive restorer" and acquired a Red none-running RX7. It needed a new engine and he found an imported Jap turbo 12at engine and gearbox in Swansea. When he came to fit it he realised it was an injection jobbie and that this was altogether too difficult to fit into a "carburettor" RX7 (I am no mechanic - what would the problem have been?) so he got an SU carb off a Maestro turbo and had a mate make him a manifold for it (!).
This all worked and he got it MOT\'d etc. and ran it for a while........ and then wrote it off.
Enter the Silver one as another none runner. He swapped the engine and got it through an MOT, but by this time had lost interest and did not finish the rest of the renovation (that\'s why there are some "red RX7" parts included in the sale). He just parked it up in a mate\'s barn.... and 8 years passed......
His farmer friend is now looking at it in his barn and suggesting something is done with it. Steve is currently renovating a Bond Bug (strange... he seemed so sensible...) and he doesn\'t fancy the fuel consumption of a Turbo Rotary in these recessionary times so it is up for sale.
So there we are.
He says if anybody wants to have a look give him a ring on 07811816391(and maybe leave a message if he is up a ladder...) and as he is self employed he can do it pretty well anytime. He seemed to know what he was talking about - a bit of an enthusiast, if somewhat misguided - and would love it if someone had it as a project.
John

[RamoNZ]

Very interesting waffle though

Like a red rag to a bull.....
 
Slam dunk for me - Jap import turbo engine, injection stuck in the too-hard basket so home made carb conversion!
 
Main issue putting the FI engine in this car is the high pressure fuel system required. Carby only requires about 4-5psi of pressue, FI is up to 40-50psi. On top of that, you need some kind of fuel surge protector - with a carby car, you have a fuel resevoir inside the carb so low fuel and cornering is not noticed as the pump just catches up.
 
With the FI - if the pump draws air, you instantly lose pressure and power - an annoyance on an NA street car, but starts to get expensive on a boosted car - but thats another story.. (..anyone??):driving

[Ian65]

on Ebay... (again)

[captainbizzaro]

I gotta buy it just so I own NEV and WEV haha.

[Steve-A]

I thought I\'d post this here too:

I just had a chat to the guy with the turbo in Bromyard on the phone, he said he\'d been in touch with John and mentioned someone in Sussex as well had been in touch? dunno if its one of us? I know Cliff called.

Either way I let him know I was interested in the bumper if he wanted to split it from the car or more likely if the new owner wanted to sell it, etc. I know he said about breaking the car in his eBay add, but I\'d feel guilty if he sold parts to me outside of eBay and let someone else down, who might be bidding just for the bumper and turbo really. The car is literally a couple of miles up the road from me, so he\'s gonna phone me back and I\'m gonna go have a poke around it and see what I can see! I\'ll let you guys know what I find.