Making a standard (relatively) FD bullet proof.

[chrisBoid]

Hi all,

realistically, tuning my FD for big power will not happen for at least 2 years due to needing £15-20k to do it (bear in mind this will involve V mounted intercooler and radiator).

To fill that 2 year gap, I want to make my existing setup as bullet proof as I can get it but keeping in mind the future upgrades.  Below is a list of components I feel will need replacing to achieve this: -

* Down pipe.
* Mid pipe with performance cat.
* Already have an A’PEXi exhaust.

* Fuel pump <-- needed?  Would the system need to be mapped with so much extra fuel that a new pump is needed?
* Already have a Knight Sports (unconfirmed) performance cold air intake. <-- What are peoples views on a closed cold air intake versus an open multi filter system?

* Stock intercooler aluminium pipes.
* Stock radiator aluminium pipes.
* Aluminium throttle elbow with injector boss
* Hard Efini pipe.

* Aluminuim AST.
* High temperature, kink resistant, silicon vacuum hose and pressure lines.

* Standalone ECU.
* Knock sensor (if ECU doesn\'t include it)

I would apreciate any thoughts (e.g. that\'s not needed, this is needed etc.) on this list.

Thanks

Chris.

[Fish]

* Down pipe. Yeap good move.
* Mid pipe with performance cat. Why do you need a cat???
* Already have an A’PEXi exhaust. Good move

* Fuel pump <-- needed? Would the system need to be mapped with so much extra fuel that a new pump is needed? Only if you do the downpipe and air filters
* Already have a Knight Sports (unconfirmed) performance cold air intake. <-- What are peoples views on a closed cold air intake versus an open multi filter system? Get the ECU done (see below)

* Stock intercooler aluminium pipes. Only if/when they split
* Stock radiator aluminium pipes.WHY???
* Aluminium throttle elbow with injector boss Again why? Save if for when it\'s needed
* Hard Efini pipe.

* Aluminuim AST. Yes, worth doing.
* High temperature, kink resistant, silicon vacuum hose and pressure lines.Dont use silicon, there are better products about, which names I cannot remember.

* Standalone ECU. Yeap worth doing
* Knock sensor (if ECU doesn\'t include it)Pointless IMHO. DET appears to only be deteceted once its happened.

Time for someone to shoot holes in my post.

Fish

[spanerhed7]

Both the stock ecu and the Apexi PFC use the existing knock sensor which is screwed into the rear side housing just above the top spark plug.

[Carl]

Originally posted by spanerhed7
Both the stock ecu and the Apexi PFC use the existing knock sensor which is screwed into the rear side housing just above the top spark plug.

The Knock sensor is usualy in the front rotor housing above the trailing spark plug.
Kind regards
Carl

[20B_boy]

Hi Chris

Before you do any thing you really want to know as best you can how the car will end up; TBH, if you are going to stick a big turbo on it a bit further down the road then I\'d leave the car pretty much as is; just do the reliablility mods like the coolant system bits you\'ve mentioned if you want to and may be getting the ECU so you can tidy things up and ensure every things set up to run as best it can. Stuff like down pipe and intercooler hard pipes are going to be redundant on a single turbo - in effect a waste of money IMO.

The less you waste on stuff that you\'ll end up sellling off for F/A later, the sooner you can afford the ported motor and turbo installation

Basically, leave as it - or only bother getting stuff that you can be certain will be serviceable on your single turbo, no point buying a fuel pump thats way better than stock but might be left wanted on a ported motor and big turbo for e.g.

All this persumes that your long term plans include ported motors and big turbos of course

Finally thanks Carl - I was just thinking \'I\'m sure the knock sensors are in the rotor housing, not the side housings??\'

[Carl]

Hi Chris,
I think that Rich is right in that you should only modify exactly what will be useful for the single turbo conversion later.
Also bear in mind that your engine will not in all likelyhood last for another two years unless it has recently been rebuilt.
That may mean the modifying it will come sooner than you think.
Of course you could allways put it away for long periods to make it last and drive it very gently until you want to go ahead with the work.
If you do decide to go modding as the car is at the moment then follow what Danny has said,I would not recommend the twin filters though,they draw in too much hot air from the engine bay.
And even if you only do the exhaust,get an ECU upgrade.
Kind regards
Carl;)

[gsb876]

A interesting investment would be something i\'ve been kicking around in me head for a few weeks now, a charge cooler???

Hippy will know more about this than me though, spoke with him at JAE and sounds a interesting setup?? am i wrong guys??:confused:

[chrisBoid]

Firstly, thanks for all the suggestions and info

I had it in mind to replace all the plastic piping with aluminium.  This is because I _think_ I am experiencing collapsing of one of my pipes related to WOT hesitation in 4th/5th gear high revs.  I see that replacing all pipes is overkill and I should just get the one that is collapsing sorted out.

20B_boy : My plan does include porting and single turbo.

spanerhed7 : I didn\'t know there was already a knock sensor in use :o

Carl : my engine is about to hit 30,000 miles and I do less than 4500 miles per year (insurance limited) so with those figures I have planned for this engine to last at least 2 years (But I do have a rebuild fund in place.)

Removed from list: -

* Down pipe.
* Mid pipe with performance cat.
* Fuel pump.
* Stock intercooler aluminium pipes.
* Stock radiator aluminium pipes.
Will not be compatible with a single turbo conversion.

* Aluminium throttle elbow with injector boss.
Dressing at the end of the day.

* Knock sensor.
Already plumbed in.

Still on the list: -

* Hard Efini pipe. Really needed?
* Aluminuim AST.
* High temperature, kink resistant, better than silicon vacuum hose and pressure lines. Can anyone recommend good stuff? Is it really needed?
* Standalone ECU. Suggestions welcome


Thanks.

[20B_boy]

Originally posted by chrisBoid
Still on the list: -

* Hard Efini pipe. Really needed?
* Aluminuim AST.
* High temperature, kink resistant, better than silicon vacuum hose and pressure lines. Can anyone recommend good stuff? Is it really needed?
* Standalone ECU. Suggestions welcome

The metal y-pipes are another \'reliability\' mod for the seq twin turbo system, if you find u have problems then it may be worth replacing with the later version - but they can be hard to get hold of or v.expensive new...

Ally AST - seen lots that leak? get a decent one and good mod.

Vac hose, viton is meant to be well recommended and last a while but I\'ve read differing reports about it. Price-wise I\'d probably use rubber myself and replace it every couple of years may be as it gets cooked off. Call it a service item when you have a rebuild

ECU, silly not to go for Power FC at the moment for reasons every one is aware of. Hopefully we will see other ECUs being used more in the future, just to give a bit of variation if nothing else! Think I\'ll try a Haltech on some thing soon if Geff fancies it...

[eatmyrx7dust]

Couldnt resist the thread....I had apexi fc, all ali pipes, uprated fuel pump, recent rebuild, 3mm tips.....etc etc

Car at WGT (probably best expert in rx field) for fitting of uprated injectors and whammo!!! car threw a tip whilst on rolling road for tuning !!!!!

Good news is car should be back on road this week !!
Who can explain the mysteries of the rx-7


Adrian

[fly]

I recently installed a koyo performance rad and i must say engine temps have dropped dramatically and my mpg has improved by at least 4-5 in city driving, so id recommend fitting a good radiator, as cool temps and better mpg can never be a bad thing.

(I also fitted a water injection kit, which helps me hit 60 in a whisker inder 5 seconds:p )

[chrisBoid]

Intercooler and radiator are great places for droping temps and increasing reliability, but my future plans involve V mounting both of these.  Plus my existing cold air intake may not allow a bigger intercooler or rad due to space limitations

[chrisBoid]

The final list v1.0
* A proven aluminium AST.
* Replacement ECU.

I have knocked the vacuum hose replacement off the list because of the enormous cost of getting the work done.  It would be best to get it done come rebuild time to save on labour.

I am still not 100% sure which ECU to go for.  Is an A\'PEXi capable of handling a big power (+500bhp) system?  Bearing in mind access to mapping expertise.

[sadgoth]

ECU, depends a lot on how much you want to spend too! MoTeC would be a good option too but pricey! PFC is the one everyone is most comfortable with over here, but Haltech is big in Aus and the US as is Microtech. Pretty sure the PFC can cope with big power, Ross\' Dragon car runs a PFC (Rich will correct me on this if I\'m wrong but I think Geff runs one in his 10 second FD too)

Rich, did u say Haltech??? Is Geff going to have a go at mapping it then? I wanted to start bringing them over myself but no-one maps them over here! If it pans out well I may opt for one in the FC.

[20B_boy]

V-mounts - I await decent info on these setups as to good thing/bad thing over the other choices. I\'m not convinced how an intercooler shut in an engine bay with a very hot radiator underneath it is going to be much better than other routes. Vented bonnet, ok - but there seems to be a lot more to having holes in a bonnet than a lot of manfuctureres consider - I\'d like to know how critical it is to use the \'right\' pressure zones across the front of the car ideally? I guess u only find that kind of info out by choopping and finding out tho I like the concept but would like to see numbers with these setups; all I\'ve heard of is Miguel\'s and from recollection that ran pretty hot on the track. Hopefully Carl can get us some info from his setup in due course.

The Apexi isnt the best ECU for high power I dont think. Geff\'s runs Power FC at the moment but only cause MicroTech couldnt manage to supply him with an ecu within the 6 months that he alotted them - nice service to UK dealers!

Haltech - yes. I was going to get an E11 ages ago for obviuos reasons but there were too many bugs in the early versions to risk running a 20B with. I know a Haltech dealer in NZ well now and trust the guys\' knowledge of the product and know he will support it. I\'ve always like the Haltechs just for the feature set the ecu\'s off for the money. Lots of people have had success with the E6\'s so why not. As for mapping them, I dont really see its a problem - a tuner should hopefully be able to use what ever u put in front of them once they are familiarised with the software...!? Lets face it, we wont all be running Power FC on RX7\'s forever - once other computers are more available and more people are known to be able to tune them people will want to try other stuff I think?? may be?