FD clutch - FC?

[m1tch]

Right, I am going to get the clutch fitted soon, now that I know the FD counterweight fits and FC engine (thanks pete ) thats sorted, however, my ORC clutch has a release bearing, does anyone know if this is specific to the clutch of can I get an OEM one and that will work?

Can someone put up a photo of an OEM FC release bearing, here is a photo of the ORC one from the FD clutch



I need to know this ASAP as I need to order a new bearing if I need to get a replacement one!

PS, here is the shiny clutch

[m1tch]

Bump for the answer, I REALLY need to know, clutch is being fitted next weekend!

[Prof]

That clutch bolt pattern doesn\'t look like the clutch would fit on a standard fly wheel?
 
Since it looks like it\'s got the flywheel with it, it may well require the correct counterweight to go with it.  The clutch manufacturer\'s site should indicate what counterweight is required.
 
You do know tha thte counterweight is in the front cover - so replacement with another one will involve opening the front cover - potentially disturbing the torrington bearings.  Also, you have to take the sump pan off to get the front cover off, and you\'ll also need to check the end play after swapping the counterweights - as the tolerances may be different and the end play may have changed - requiring a different spacer.
 
If you\'re keeping the stock flywheel, then no need to change anything front of engine.

[m1tch]

That clutch bolt pattern doesn\'t look like the clutch would fit on a standard fly wheel?
 
Since it looks like it\'s got the flywheel with it, it may well require the correct counterweight to go with it.  The clutch manufacturer\'s site should indicate what counterweight is required.
 
You do know tha thte counterweight is in the front cover - so replacement with another one will involve opening the front cover - potentially disturbing the torrington bearings.  Also, you have to take the sump pan off to get the front cover off, and you\'ll also need to check the end play after swapping the counterweights - as the tolerances may be different and the end play may have changed - requiring a different spacer.
 
If you\'re keeping the stock flywheel, then no need to change anything front of engine.

*sigh* I have an FD counterweight that was included with the FD clutch, the ORC clutch has its own flywheel - hence the counterweight, it has their own bolt patterning to give better clamping etc.

Pete - did you need to change anything on the front of your engine with your clutch, hmm I know you are running a FD counterweight etc

*sigh* why do I think I have just wasted a shed load of cash on this clutch

The current clutch has a maximum of 1 trip out, I might have to get the AA to take my over there if it fails/can\'t get to 60 *crys*

No I didn\'t know the counterweight was in the front of the engine, I thought it might have bolted up behind the flywheel? Just been out to have a look at the clutch, the rear counterweight bolts onto the back of the flywheel using the 6 bolts.

I am guessing there might be 2 counterweights, on at the front and then either 1 built into the OEM flywheel or a lightened flywheel and a counterweight added?

[m1tch]

Just found this on FC3Spro:

"Use of any lightened flywheel requires the use of a proper automatic transmission counterweight.  The lightened flywheels do not have the appropriate counterweights attached, so be sure to track down the appropriate rear counterweight when trying to replace your stock flywheel.  Also, six bolts are used to secure the rear counterweight to the lightened flywheel - be sure to have these on hand when doing the install."

But what I REALLY REALLY need to know/see is an OEM release bearing, I have the uprated ORC one that it came with for an FD, is this ok for an FC, further more if it doesn\'t, can an OEM release bearing be used to release the ORC clutch?

[Prof]

Arh - now I see !  The counterweight is on part of the casting on a stock flywheel - so that problem solved.
 
That release bearing doesn\'t look like any of the ones I\'ve had with either the stock clutch, Exedy clutch or even the one I\'m running now - but the good news is they all looked the same give or take some styling differences - so I would say a stock release bearing will be fine.

[m1tch]

I think that ORC release bearing comes with the push pull convertor (kit retails for £335 alone!) and its uprated to be able to cope with the power lol I will bring it along when I get the clutch changed over but the OEM one that is there might be ok for the time being - it just needs to hold 300bhp for about a year or so.

I just hope that is all fits ok

[Hammer]

You need to match the front counter weight with the rear counter weight.  You also need to match the counter weights to the rotors your running inside your motor.
 
I.e  I am using S4 rotors in my S6 engine, so I am using S4 counterweights with a lightened flywheel.  I couldnt use the FD counterweight/Flywheel with the S4 rotors as the S4 rotors weigh more than the FD ones.

[m1tch]

Petes not having issues with his FD counterweight that was lying around and was just fitted, the OEM part numbers for both the clutch kits are the same for the series 5 FC and the FD engines, I believe that the S4s are different though.

[Hammer]

The S4 rotors weigh a canny bit more than the S6 ones. I remember reading the weights of rotors last week when I was researching counterweights.
 
It helps reduce vibration if you match weights with rotors, I will try and find the info again and post it on here.

[Hammer]

This is one thing I found:
 
weird,i ran s4 rotors and front counterwight with a lightweight flywheel using a S5 rear counterweight and the bearings were shot in around 3 months,the car was daily driven for the 3 months with a small vibration around 4K and up,I founded out that i have the wrong CW after taking the engine apart because i went thru my receipts and pakages and i discovered that ACT sent me the wrong CW(different part number between series),again bearings the rear bearing was shot and the rest was badly worn out
 
But the S5 balanced assembly is the same as a S6, so your fine.

[m1tch]

This is one thing I found:
 
weird,i ran s4 rotors and front counterwight with a lightweight flywheel using a S5 rear counterweight and the bearings were shot in around 3 months,the car was daily driven for the 3 months with a small vibration around 4K and up,I founded out that i have the wrong CW after taking the engine apart because i went thru my receipts and pakages and i discovered that ACT sent me the wrong CW(different part number between series),again bearings the rear bearing was shot and the rest was badly worn out
 
But the S5 balanced assembly is the same as a S6, so your fine.

I am taking the car down to the garage this weekend, I think he said that Carl might have an FC one, it depends really, ORC show the same OEM number for both their kits.

[Hammer]

Yea but it depends what FC one it is for... S4 or S5

[m1tch]

The clutch kit is actually for an FD, so will be fine for an FD and a series 5 FC (just removing the push pull convertor)

FD kit:

http://www.rhdjapan.com/orc-559-twin-plate-metal-clutch-kit-mazda-fd3s-31204

Notes:
Mazda OEM counter weight (OEM part number: N327-11-521A for early model / N351-11-521 for later model) and bolts (OEM part number: 8051-27-235) will need to be purchased as well.

FC kit:

http://www.rhdjapan.com/orc-559-twin-plate-metal-clutch-kit-mazda-fc3s-51087#tab1

Notes:
Mazda OEM counter weight (OEM part number: N327-11-521A for early model / N351-11-521 for later model) and bolts (OEM part number: 8051-27-235) will need to be purchased as well.

Although it seems that my clutch isn\'t a 559 now, the theory is the same

[clive]

It may help to know that one of our Australian friends (I think) put up pictures on a thread we had running recently about counter balance weights.

All the weights are different and the correct one must be fitted to the correct engine or a harmonic imbalance will set up and either destroy the bearings as described above or worse !

Always surprised me that when tuning piston engines one of the very first things on the list is to balance the rods, crank, pistons and flywheel/clutch assembly and yet here in the Rotary world its rarely even mention,

Yes I know our engines are inherently in balance much better than those things that have con rods that leap up n down like demented things that are trying into outer space but balance is still important in our smooooth Rotarys.

A search on the word "counter balence weight " should bring the thread up if you want it.