MOT questions

[davefrith]

The local police round here don\'t seem to be into that, perhaps you have been unlucky if you have experienced it.

I haven\'t used Thames Valley though I have met the well respected member Dave who runs it

[iaint]

Originally posted by leggysrx7
...mines is a 1994 L plate, rebuilt engine(last year)...running with a straight thru pipe and de-cat...standard ECU though....

...all my work is normally done at the Garage in Wishaw, maybe one of the locals could shed some light for me...Bobster,Robbie..Donato...

All advice welcome.

Marc

Hmm - don\'t want to sound paranoid but de-cat will usually put you close to running lean under high-load, more so if you have cat-back and a downpipe (or a jap spec pipie with no pre-cat).  Would be well worth getting it on some rollers to see if that is the case - would be a shame to need a premature rebuild.  If it is runnin glean you can \'justify\' the cost of an apexi and mapping - you should then be able to have both better performance and emissions.

Iain

[iaint]

Originally posted by Brett

 As for your stand on wether or not its dodgy;
 
 

Being Catless, I understand the best thing to do is to hit Thames Valley who "understand" RX7\'s....

You have to admit that that sounds dodgy!  And if he is letting cars pass that would normally fail on emissions then I was right, if he is making sure the emissions are down to the right levels then I stand correted. [/B]

I\'m sure what was referred to was the fact that turning on the air-con and making sure the car has had a blat before running the test (i.e. not just started).  Are what\'s meant by \'understanding\'.

I\'m sure that Dave will be the 1st to point out that he does not do \'dodgy\' MOTs or bend the rules in any way.  It\'s also unwise for anyone to imply that he does just in case the BiB get the wrong idea.

Iain

[davefrith]

Originally posted by iaint
You have to admit that that sounds dodgy!  And if he is letting cars pass that would normally fail on emissions then I was right, if he is making sure the emissions are down to the right levels then I stand correted.

I\'m sure what was referred to was the fact that turning on the air-con and making sure the car has had a blat before running the test (i.e. not just started).  Are what\'s meant by \'understanding\'.

I\'m sure that Dave will be the 1st to point out that he does not do \'dodgy\' MOTs or bend the rules in any way.  It\'s also unwise for anyone to imply that he does just in case the BiB get the wrong idea.

Iain [/B][/QUOTE]

Very well said Iain

[Brett]

I\'ll shut up then.

[craigr]

To clear this up, I was not trying to imply any strange or underhand goings-on at Thames Valley (I\'ve never met or used them before, but have heard good things on the forum).

I have a cat, just not fitted. I also have a PFC. I understand either refitting the cat, fiddling with aircon, getting the car hot and giving it a blast, tweaking the PFC, or whatever may well get FD\'s past the test.

I also understand that some grease-monkey in garage \'X\' would not typically get any of that, and that Thames Valley apparently do.

As others have said, please don\'t start rumours floating around here, as companys survive by their reputations.

Cheers, Craig

[Brett]

No one really seems to understand what I\'m getting at, I\'m not trying to start romours, far from it.  I\'m simply trying to pass on a warning to be careful!  
  You are suggesting getting your emissions down to pass the MOT, but you are then going back to your old settings afterwards (Correct?) if that is the case then your MOT is no longer Valid.  Better to get your car running in such a way that it will pass checks etc without having to change settings.  You may think that spot checks are few and far between, but the are on the increase, you only have to have seen the recent adverts on TV and in the motoring press to realise that these checks are going to become regular.  
 If you set your car up right theres no reason why emissions should be a problem.  I know thats its also a long and painful journey to get your emissions right (I\'ve spent the last 6 months fiddling and tweaking and experimenting with allsorts to get mine down) but its worth doing it.

 After all whats the point of doing loads of mods to the exhaust and fueling (And I know I\'m grossly generalizing here) when you know that your gonna have to either change it all back for the MOT or spend ages changing settings on ECU\'s and mixture which will then have to be put back to \'normal\' again to make the car drivable and keep the engine/turbo(s) alive for more than 1000miles.


 I really probably should just but out now.:rolleyes:

[davefrith]

Originally posted by Brett
No one really seems to understand what I\'m getting at, I\'m not trying to start romours, far from it.  I\'m simply trying to pass on a warning to be careful!  
  You are suggesting getting your emissions down to pass the MOT, but you are then going back to your old settings afterwards (Correct?) if that is the case then your MOT is no longer Valid.  Better to get your car running in such a way that it will pass checks etc without having to change settings.  You may think that spot checks are few and far between, but the are on the increase, you only have to have seen the recent adverts on TV and in the motoring press to realise that these checks are going to become regular.  
 If you set your car up right theres no reason why emissions should be a problem.  I know thats its also a long and painful journey to get your emissions right (I\'ve spent the last 6 months fiddling and tweaking and experimenting with allsorts to get mine down) but its worth doing it.

 After all whats the point of doing loads of mods to the exhaust and fueling (And I know I\'m grossly generalizing here) when you know that your gonna have to either change it all back for the MOT or spend ages changing settings on ECU\'s and mixture which will then have to be put back to \'normal\' again to make the car drivable and keep the engine/turbo(s) alive for more than 1000miles.


 I really probably should just but out now.:rolleyes:

Brett

I see what you are saying and thanks for the warning, at the end of the day its people personal choice what they choose to do mods wise. Personally I beleive the police have better things to do as I said before, and even if they did make you change your non-emissions friendly performance mods, once you have them changed whose to say you won\'t put them back again

I think quite a few people on here don\'t have CATS, it is possible to tune the car to a state that it will pass the emissions test without one

I don\'t see how taking the car for a quick blast and changing a few settings or turning the air con on makes you a blatent target for the police

I don\'t think anyone changes their settings to make their car less drivable or make their turbos pop prematurely

As to why would anyone mod their cars I think you know why

[MikeLMR]

yes checks will be a regular thing, I know all the test gear has appeared in our garage at the moment + the inspectors will soon have new powers to pull cars over (currently the police nead to be present to stop the cars) and marked patrol cars to pull cars/lorries in on the motorway if they see fit. (cambridgeshire already have all this in place for stopping lorries)

[Brett]

My point about about changing things and that affect component life was this:-

 To get the emissions down generally means running a leaner mix, leaner engines are running much closer to the detontation point and the fuel burns much faster and much hotter resulting in an exponetial increase in heat, now as 13B\'s have cast Iron walls and aluminium housings the excess heat can make the different expansion values of those materials apparant (Read more wear), excessive heat build up in a turbo affects the bearings causing loads of friction (where there should ideally be a coeffiecient of friction of less than 0.2) wich causes excessive wear in very short order.


 I dont recal asking why people modify, just asking them to plan for every evantuallity in their mods.

[davefrith]

Well fair enough I am sure if the laws are enforced then the thousands of performance car owners will be changing their exhausts and getting remaps etc. I don\'t see it as a major issue, everyone does it and knows that they can be stopped and tested

Everyone can make their own choice, if you get stopped and have to get a new MOT then do the idle air con, blat thing and then show the MOT problem solved unless you are unlucky enough to be stopped again

[moakesr]

The biggest challenge is finding a garage that wants to know or cares that Rotary engines are different, and that different rules regarding high rpm testing apply.

i.e. If you rev it to 3000 rpm as requested for every other car than a rotary, it will fail because the air pump is not running.

If you rev it at 2500 rpm with the air pump running, then the catalyst performs better, and you pass.

Mainstream MOT centres, have neither the time or inclination to understand this or check with VI what is the correct procedure.

My local MOT centre is rotary sympathetic, this does not mean my MOT is dodgy, it means they take care to listen to me, read any info I provide and work with me to get the car through the test with a pass.

Richard

[davefrith]

Well said Richard

I am sure you are right, we all know modifying decreases the life of the engine, but everyone and I mean just about every Rx-7 owner on this forum does it

Discussion is going no where , everyone knows the score, modded Rx-7\'s are hard to get through emissions tests end of story
If you can do it great, if not change your mods

Notice my use of smileys, I don\'t argue on car forums so don\'t want to be drawn into one :cool :rolleyes:

[Brett]

Your point about about garages not want to know etc has just jogged my memory about something!  

 About 18months ago the section on wankel engines was removed from the MOT manual.  This led to lots of head scratching around the country, for awhile a lot of places classed \'em as two strokes (so no emissions check!) but, (and theres always a bloody but) unless you are now actually running a full premix setup and have the documentation to proove it you will have to take the same test as a 4 stroke.  (My MOT guy is Uber helpfull, even made a point of going to loads of seminars so he could get the official line on derestricted wankels.  The ministry said that the car\'s passed the test when manufactured and so must pass the same test as everyone else\'.  Guess who my MOT guy was talking to? The man who first worked on getting the RX\'s emissions down for the UK market!)

 Just an interesting point,.

[rxangus]

Just to join in the fun.....

Quote
"You are suggesting getting your emissions down to pass the MOT, but you are then going back to your old settings afterwards (Correct?) if that is the case then your MOT is no longer Valid."

This is patently untrue. The MOT is an indication of a vehicle\'s condition ON THE DAY OF THE TEST only. The certificate although valid for one year, does not guarantee satisfactory condition of the vehicle for that whole year - how could it? The condition of your vehicle may be tested at any time simply because of it\'s presence on the public highway.

See here for my understanding of emissions regs:
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6272

I got my 96 tested in May and they thought it was a 95 due to date on previous cert and private plate. Nevertheless they gave it the more stringent test that I was hoping to avoid but it still passed - I think because they didn\'t measure the engine speed whilest checking the emissions. Probably couldn\'t find the plug leads!!!!

I can also confirm that a rear fog light is needed for both SVA and MOT although the rules on positioning are less stringent for MOT. As an example I needed a hanging down foglight for SVA but it has now been changed to one of my reversing lights which is ok for MOT.

Does anyone know if the front lights on the RB are fogs or driving? If driving then what are the regs for having them on? Mine can be switched on with a non illuminated switch when on side lights only.

Angus