Nitrous and Water Injection

[Carl]

Originally posted by Archbish
SHUT UP CARL I HATE YOU AND I HATE SI AND I HATE ANDYP AND I HATE GRINDER AND I HATE GURJ AND I HATE CLIVE AND I HATE FISH AND I HATE GLENN AND I HATE EVERYONE AND YOU\'RE ALL WRONG AND I THINK MART IS THE DEVILS CHILD FOR STARTING THIS THREAD

I\'m quite partial to 20B_Boy and a tub of strawberry cheesecake hagen daaz.  Not at the same time, of course...

I can take the constructive criticism,you love me really don\'t you OJ?Please say that you do?Please...Hugs and kisses....
Kinder than usual regards
Carl:rolleyes:

[Archbish]

well, OK then - I love you too Carl (or Big Cuddly Hairy C as I like to call you!!) *grin*

Love and hugs

OJ
xxxxxxx

[scooby_si]

i luv anyone & everyone too but then i am cheap http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008\' target=\'_blank\'>http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/1/1_4_107.gif\' border=0> lol
A good discussion is always a good thing IMO although things can often by misjudged when writen in black & white even where the pros & cons aren\'t so clear cut but anyway as i say it\'s all good & shouldn\'t be taken to heart....
Si (resisting using the debate term for reasons of an OJ nature lol)

[Mart160plus]

AND I THINK MART IS THE DEVILS CHILD FOR STARTING THIS THREAD

So you found out, and I\'ve only been here five minutes !! Can\'t the devil\'s offspring get to hell and back in a rotary ?? (got to be a song title in there somewhere.....)

Mart.
:evillaugh

[Roundabout-Now]

What\'s the practical limit when adding nitrous to a rotary then? Previous threads seem to suggest anything above 25bhp is a problem, but does this still apply to a proper ECU controlled system?

[Glenn Butcher]

Originally posted by Carl
Sorry Rich,I was meaning that you and Glen had probably been in communication that you knew who Anthony was,that\'s all.

Carl,

I didn\'t even know Anthony was coming on board, what would it matter if I did.  If you would look around the forums yourself you would see his posts, Ausrotary, rx7forum etc. (I believe that is how Rich would know who he is).  Doesn\'t take much to find these things out - that he knows his stuff.  Sounds like you are having a dig at me!!  You back up Bill all the time, he still hasn\'t posted anything back about how he would have designed the exhaust manifold - anyway on with this exciting thread!

Again I can understand where Bill is coming from with the dry system and having the ECU control it all  BUT...  My understanding is that for injectors to be working correctly they have to be operating at around 80-90% of their capacity (to get the fuel to atomise correctly).  How is a dry system going to be able to flow the EXTRA amount of fuel required when a 100-200-300hp shot of nitrous is injected?  I suppose you could have a series of injectors that are turned on and off with the nos shot - but I don\'t think this would be a good idea from the safety point of view.  When it comes to the practicality side of this, Anthony has been there and done it and is still doing it -  using different fuels via the wet system is something I didn\'t even think about/know about.

BTW - I have not secretly communicated with anyone on this point!!!

Roundabout-Now, for NA rotaries it is possible to double the hp.  For turbo set-ups I\'m not really sure - Anthony is your man to answer that.  I believe again when you know what you are doing, doubling hp should be achievable.  I know you have the right ECU to control it all (M800)  

.ps Top thread Mart160plus!

[bill shurvinton]

Originally posted by gbutcher
 

I didn\'t even know Anthony was coming on board, what would it matter if I did.  If you would look around the forums yourself you would see his posts, Ausrotary, rx7forum etc. (I believe that is how Rich would know who he is).  Doesn\'t take much to find these things out - that he knows his stuff.  Sounds like you are having a dig at me!!  You back up Bill all the time, he still hasn\'t posted anything back about how he would have designed the exhaust manifold - anyway on with this exciting thread!

So again we are reduced to dragging up the last time you threw your toys out of your pram. This is really not a healthy way to cultivate a forum. A clique yes, a forum no. It would appear that you are after an arrangement where you lord it over your chosen acolytes and sycophants. As a result this is clearly not a forum or club that I wish to be associated with.

As I said before I do not have to justify myself to you. The engineering council is happy to accept my creditentials as a Chartered Engineer so your opinion means little to me.

But for the record:

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=309696

Is an example of a very good SINGLE turbo manifold. You can see the straight run out of both ports as far as possible before the turn and the attempts to make the wastegate branch out as evenly as possible from the main runners. Does not address the divergence in the exhaust sleeve that causes huge turbulence and loses a lot of blowdown energy, but very few people do.

Now if you will all excuse me, I have an EFI system to assemble for a Gen 1 for someone.

[Glenn Butcher]

I\'m sorry Bill if this Forum isn\'t good enough for you, you will be missed.

I did actually try to make a point with my comment about the dry vs wet system - not that it matters now.

Thanks for the tips on the manifold, I\'ll be sure to pass the information on.

[Carl]

Hi Glenn,
I do frequent the other forums from time to time.
I just don\'t comment on them.
As to my support of Bill it is simply because he is right, no if\'s,no but\'s,and I think I am right in saying that I have backed him up twice,you have slated him twice and backed up CPC more than once.It is not personal but don\'t say someone must be wrong cos they either have not actually done something or they are not Australian.
The work on rotaries that people in Australia have done over the years is amazing,fantastic,brilliant and really appreciated by me,it does not mean that it cannot be improved upon,either by them or us.If it was at its limit then we would not have further developement taking place in Australia any more.
How many engines have you built Glenn?I think, but maybe wrong, from your comments that you have always had someone build them for you?
That does not make me think that your opinion is automatically wrong through a lack of practical experience in building engines,you know as much about what makes them go as many an engine builder does,how to do it maybe another matter.
I value your post\'s on techy stuff just as much as the next man,keep them up but let us give an opinion too.
Note my comment about there being more than one way to sucssesfully achieve certain things.
Would you not agree that the CPC exhaust could be improved upon Glen?It could,so can most things.
Would you not agree that with the right ancillaries and extra injectors probably placed in the inlet ports along with the Nos, that an ECU control is the very best approach?Albeit expensive and time consuming?It can work.
The wet Nos system is the easiest route to take and least expensive.
As to being able to run a higher octane fuel for the Nos you could simply have the Nos fuel injectors running from a seperate smaller fuel tank and pump that is controlled by the ECU too.

On a personal note I know and freely admit that my skills/knowledge is way behind the workshops in Australia,but I am also trying out things to try to catchup,who knows,one day the fastest rotary might just be in Britain!We will be standing on the shoulders of giants from Australia and Puerto Rico,Japan and the States in our quest though!

Thankyou for your input about Rich\'s comments.It just seemed from your words that I quote "No probs. matey, Rich knew who you were also " that you and Rich had been in communication with you at some point about Anthony.I guess I was wrong.

Please ,please do not take this post personaly,it is not meant that way.
Kind regards
forever learning Carl

[Carl]

Bill will be much missed as he had alot to offer, and more than most of us could know,if you get to know him he is extremely knowledgeble about a broad range of subjects,he has worked on some pretty serious things that I think he cannot talk about(Official secrets) but most of us would dream about.And these things would have been far more challenging than an old outdated rotary engine that is still basically a 40 year old design.
Shame he has been knocked a bit for his knowledge.
I hope he does not stay away.
He was the "Q" of our forum.(James Bond)
Kind regards
Carl
:confused:

[BUZNUTS]

Bill,
I hope it has not been my presence that has prompted your departure, this was in no way my intention. As I have said in my previous posts I welcome others opinions and have never implied that yours is wrong, only that what I offerred seemed to be the application for what being enquired about. Your opinion is as valid as all of ours and I think that the loss of you from this forum will be a wasted one, for you as well. I hope that you can see the logic in what I say as this is another example of how thick skinned you must be on the net. As you should well know "everyone is an expert in the cyberworld", but you will find that knowledge or the lack of knowledge will always show through.
REgards-Anthony

[Glenn Butcher]

Originally posted by Carl
It is not personal but don\'t say someone must be wrong cos they either have not actually done something or they are not Australian.

Hmmm, I\'ll leave that?

Originally posted by Carl

How many engines have you built Glenn?I think, but maybe wrong, from your comments that you have always had someone
build them for you?

None Carl, never said I have - but have spent years trying to find the right people who can.  But it isn\'t just about the engine is it!

Originally posted by Carl
Would you not agree that the CPC exhaust could be improved upon Glen?It could,so can most things.
[/B]

Sure, but if you go back to that thread - I had asked Bill to come forward at the time and show us the way it should be done, as he only gave it a 6 out of 10.  He has now done this (shown for a SINGLE turbo), and as I said I will show some people and get their opinions.

Originally posted by Carl
Would you not agree that with the right ancillaries and extra injectors probably placed in the inlet ports along with the Nos, that an ECU control is the very best approach?Albeit expensive and time consuming?It can work.
The wet Nos system is the easiest route to take and least expensive.
As to being able to run a higher octane fuel for the Nos you could simply have the Nos fuel injectors running from a seperate smaller fuel tank and pump that is controlled by the ECU too.
[/B]

Goes without saying Carl, but I still refer back to my point/question which hasn\'t been answered.  What you are saying is basically to run a wet system if you are going to use a seperate fuel tank/pump system anyway?  Maybe I missed something there?


I never asked Bill to leave, but some of his comments I think are quite offensive - like the one about "The technology is all there, just that most of the customers for NOS systems tend to come from the lower end of the gene pool thus not making research into well designed solutions profitable."

I find that pretty offensive - not personally but on a general scale.

Bill is more than welcome, but he shouldn\'t treat everyone like they are an idiot because they aren\'t an Engineer.

[Carl]

What we need is a good session down a watering hole!
I think that the net is a very difficult place to judge how people really feel in their comments.
Shame Glenn and Anthony are so far away.I would invite you both to my local and I am sure we would all see things in a totaly different light face to face.
I reckon that quite a few would want to join us too with Anthony\'s presence.It may priove to be a rather tiring experience too!LOL.
Come Si give us a decent smily?Down the pub or something?
Kind regards
Carl

:wave

[Mart160plus]

My first thread and people are threatening to leave already...

Folks, I\'ve been a member of other clubs and message boards and people left those clubs and set up their own because of the way people were treated when they shared their opinions. I actually run my own car club for just such a reason.
We all have opinions on things, some are right, some are wrong, but as we\'re all different this will always be the case.
Trick is not to get your knickers in a twist, take the bait and vent online.
I can\'t wait to meet you all and talk rotaries and everything connected with them, I just hope unlike other clubs we can focus on our appreciation of the rotary engine and not fall into the \'rubbing up the wrong way\' trap.

Good luck (he says from lotus position atop a mountain).

Mart.:cheers

[Archbish]

Welcome to the skyline forum.... *lmao*