Brands Hatch trackday observations...

RedRummy · June 25, 2008, 12:35:50 PM

Just had the Brands hatch trackday yesterday in my FD....

Had a great time, but... a fewthings gave cause for concern...

1) Brands seems to be a mostly 3rd gear track, with some 4th gear on the straights (well, for me anyway) and this meant pretty high revs in 3rd for most of the lap... driving like this really got things hot under the bonnet and I could only stay out driving like that for about 5 laps maximum... then I had to either come in or stay in 4th to keep things from getting too hot. (100deg oil temp, 100deg water temp)... needed to come in really so as not to slow everyone down by staying in 4th.

2) got major brake fade after about 2 or 3 (5 lap) sessions close together... so much so that on coming into the pits I noticed I was losing brake fluid out the reservoir - Is this normal??? Thye brake fade came on VERY quickly too - almost half a lap length and it was getting dangerous!

3) The brake fluid reservoir looks like its still full-ish when cold - should I top it up?

4) Once the car was hot it was really difficult to get it to cool properly (heat soak?)... the oil temp would drop to about 90deg when standing still bonnet open, car running, but it would rise very quickly to 100deg again once back out on track... didn\'t really have time to let it sit, engine off waiting for it to cool.

5) Am I being too cautios? Could it handle going over 100deg C - always looked to this as a measure of "getting too hot!"

Great fun though, and gave me loads to think about

RedRummy · June 25, 2008, 12:49:24 PM

PS - got stock pads and discs up front and Endless CC-x with stock discs on the back.

I\'ve got a large FEED intercool (FMIC) and much larger radiator, sitting behind the intercooler, twin oil coolers, stock twins with HKS mushroom intakes.

I know I\'ve got a bit of a issue having the turbo intakes stitting behind the large rad and FMIC, cos they\'re just sucking in the hot air from the rad etc..

Need to get me a vented bonnet and some ducting... was so surprise how hot it got so quickly though, and how slow it was to cool down

Had the rad fan on double speed almost all the time too.

iaint · June 25, 2008, 12:53:18 PM

Because of my setup (slightly laggy turbo) I found 2nd useful around Druids then it was 3rd for the rest of the lap except the main streight.

Aim for me was to spend all the time abouve 4k rpm and was more than happy to take it to 7800 as often as needed.

I\'ve got a decent v-moutn setup that kept temps completely under control all day and the breaks had no fade even when out for 10+ laps at a time. I\'m running uprated fluid though which may well be helping and front disks and pads all round. No fade at all, breaks were capable of being leaned on right to the end.

Might be a cost effective approact to completely change the fluid for something more robust.

iaint · June 25, 2008, 12:56:04 PM

Quote from: RedRummy;511841I\'ve got a large FEED intercool (FMIC) and much larger radiator, sitting behind the intercooler, twin oil coolers, stock twins with HKS mushroom intakes.

I know I\'ve got a bit of a issue having the turbo intakes stitting behind the large rad and FMIC, cos they\'re just sucking in the hot air from the rad etc..

This is likely to be a big part of the intake temps and heat building in the system.

I know many run FMIC with no issues but the v-mount seems to be the weapon of choice for track use. Might be possible to v-mount your current gear just by playing with a few brackets. Easy enough to duct cold air out the side of the V to your intakes then.

antnicuk · June 25, 2008, 02:39:19 PM

FMIC is not the best set up for air temps or water temps, the air cant flow though it as quickly as the i/c is right behind it.

If your brakes die quickly it is likely to be fluid boiling which is why it over flowed. Get something like AP551 racing fluid, its only cheap and wont boil. Once fluid has boilded it needs changing anyway as its knackered.

Try finding matching pads for the front that you have on the rear. Always better for controlling brake temps.

If you can get your water temps down a little it will help your oil temps as they are related. I ran stock oil coolers on track with no problem at all. If you have decent fresh oil, 100 degc is fine, but make sure it doesnt go too much higher. Where is your oil temp sender? as that can make a difference.

The most important thing i have found for track work is ducting, make sure you make the most of all the air entering the front of the car. You need block any hole that the air can escape from before it goes through the rad and i/c. The same goes for your oil coolers, check the ducting.

Also, you may find it quite easy and cheap to re position your rad and i/c into a v mount position and it will work fine.

RedRummy · June 25, 2008, 02:56:44 PM

ok, guys thanks for the tips...

I don\'t want to re-open the argument for/against VMount and FMIC ! The FMIC should work fine for me given that I\'m not really pushing it hard.

Not sure where the oil temp sender is need to check. same for water sender.

Need to change the brake fluid then... and yeah, need to sort out the ducting in the front... this was deffo the main problem all day - just couldn\'t get it to cool down once hot (driving slowly to get some air throught would\'ve worked, but I wouldn\'t have been popular on track LOL)

Was a hot day too.. must\'ve been mid twenties ambient air temp??

BlitzBoy · June 25, 2008, 03:13:27 PM

WI with a large tank out back is what you need to help, Max from Reworx fame used WI in his silver when he goes round nurbergring, works well keeps combustion temps down which in turn the oil doesnt heat up as much. Obviously VMount is the best config, but as been said before good ducting for the Rad will help loads

iaint · June 25, 2008, 03:31:52 PM

Worth noting that I\'m running a single oil cooler and have no problems even with the car putting out somewhere in the region of 400hp.

antnicuk · June 25, 2008, 08:25:48 PM

ian, one cooler works fine when everything else is well set up like yours is. If your water gets hot, the oil gets hotter as they run side by side.

As for argument between V mount and F mount, there is no argument, V mount is better!

:D Its simple physics. I was only running 300 rwhp on my last FD and using a small i/c v mounted made a huge difference.:cheers

As blitz said, water injection is the best bang for buck you can have regardless of boost or power.

iaint · June 25, 2008, 08:52:10 PM

No arguments with me on that Tony - WI seems to be an excellent solution (no pun intended!). Fortunately don\'t need it at the moment but it\'s a tempting thing to add.

Am thinking about wither fitting an enlarged cooler or seeing if i can get a twin setup custom fitted though as it\'d be an extra layer of safety and precautions.

antnicuk · June 25, 2008, 10:30:03 PM

it took me about an hour to fit the second cooler to my fd, its quite easy and very cheap to pick up the extra cooler and line.

As for w/i, its the route to longevity along with pre mix, and i\'m afraid no one will convince me otherwise. I have proved it to myself too many times now.

lockwood77 · June 25, 2008, 10:57:23 PM

I certainly didn\'t have brake issues on the Silverstone GP circuit last week, which isn\'t particularly hard on the brakes but you do reach some very high speeds (full boost for nearly 10 seconds on the main straight!) I have Castrol SRF fluid in, Clive\'s grooved Racing Brake discs and Hawk HT10 pads up front, Mintex Xtremes on the rear and some random grooved/drilled things from the US on the back.

I wouldn\'t worry about oil getting that hot, my Integra runs at that just on the motorway, but I know the FD runs cooler normally and I would be worried if it got much higher. I didn\'t really pay much attention on track as my main concern was intake temps getting as high as 65C (once) - water was getting handled OK (not least as I would whack the aircon on if it got in the mid-90s), but I was really struggling with an ARC SMIC and coming in to the pits didn\'t help due to heatsoak, so I just did a touring lap then started up again!

I guess that wasn\'t an issue for you with a FMIC. My first job is ducting followed by WI I think, it wasn\'t even that warm last week and I have a day at Donington on 18th July!

RedRummy · June 26, 2008, 01:18:22 PM

yeah, think I just need to sort my ducting out ASAP... might run with some bonnet lifters too temporarily next time.

lockwood77 · June 26, 2008, 01:19:56 PM

There was some debate about lifters in a recent Intake Temps thread, if you mean the ones that lift the back of the bonnet, it seemed that they could actually hamper airflow.

iaint · June 26, 2008, 02:30:58 PM

Quote from: lockwood77;512146There was some debate about lifters in a recent Intake Temps thread, if you mean the ones that lift the back of the bonnet, it seemed that they could actually hamper airflow.

I think yuo\'d ahve to visit a windtunnel to actually see what happens to air in those specific areas to be honest. The fluid dynamics going on are pretty damn complex!