The Poor Mans Non-Sequential Setup

[cyman]

lol all this talk about saving money on fuel, guys we own a mini supercar!!!! if you want to save money on fuel you are in the wrong car!! do what a lot a people do and buy your self a £500 cheap runaround if you do loads of miles.
PS A seq vs a non seq, the seq will be faster in most scenarios if they met each other on the road

like i said for me the fact that i save fuel is a bonus.
 
the sweeping statement about sequential being faster than non sequential is a bit :Hammer :Hammer   all car performance is relative if you have a good car with a good driver its going to be faster than a good car with a not very good driver. the only time i can think of that a non sequential maybe a bit faster is in a standing start and that is def down to the driver. cant think of any rx7 owner out on a bit of a blast is gonna let the revs drop below 3500k anytime and its below that where the seq has the only advantage. unles you still want to race hot hatches around town in a 30 limit :rollin :rollin :rollin

[BlitzBoy]

this discussion is so boring each to his own anyway , Mazda knew what they were doing when the designed the FD3s as seq as did Toyota with the seq Twin turbo supra , the fastest twin in this country was seq with a 12 second dead, the fastest twin in the US is seq at 10.9, a seq twin turbo will hit peak boost quicker then then a non seq. Round a circuit with the same driver ability the seq will always win as it will always be on boost coming out of slow corners.
All down to preference at the end of the day, enjoy your non seqs boys

[interloper393]

blitzboy u drive a car with a big turbo, so your in the same boat as a car running non-seq same pro/cons but with a hell of alot more power :yes

[BlitzBoy]

yes but mines not a daily driver (weekends mostly for Drag) but I do miss my original seq setup with that nice and wide power band starting nice and low ideal street point to point car

[cyman]

this discussion is so boring each to his own anyway , Mazda knew what they were doing when the designed the FD3s as seq as did Toyota with the seq Twin turbo supra , the fastest twin in this country was seq with a 12 second dead, the fastest twin in the US is seq at 10.9, a seq twin turbo will hit peak boost quicker then then a non seq. Round a circuit with the same driver ability the seq will always win as it will always be on boost coming out of slow corners.
All down to preference at the end of the day, enjoy your non seqs boys

:rollin :rollin :rollin if the discussion is so boring why try to justify yourself.
 
i am a non sequential owner if you tell me non sequential isnt very good i am going to defend it because i disagree with you
 
i agree that mazda knew what they were doing when they deigned this twin turbo setup but you have to remember that these cars arent new anymore some are 15 years old and one of the reliability issues with them is the sequential turbo setup. from the posts on the rx7 forums the rats nest and servo\'s can be a real headache and if you have to take it to a specialist to get sorted not very cheap to put right.
 
your trying to make the same old arguement.. i agreed with you that a sequential will always be quicker off the mark (but not by much, you are talking tenths of seconds from standstill up to 30mph or so)the whole track argument doesnt hold my non seq setup starts to spin from 3k by 4k you are at nearly full boost. show me a driver who is on a track letting the revs drop so low as to need a turbo from 2k and i will show you someone who should stick to the roads on a sunday and not be on the track.
 
i am used to high revving motorcycles with small power bands and honda vtecs. the honda vtec has very little torque but high peak power in a small power band so how come it beats larger engined more torquy hot hatches round a track.....oh that will be because if you are on a track you drive to keep the car where the power is. you dont drive a car that revs to nearly 8k with 4k of power band in fifth at 2k revs.(unless its raining and you are using the lower torque to pull you out of corners without spinning up)
 
like you said horses for courses. with better reliability and better peak power with nice off turbo cruising at motorway speeds it suits me just fine and from driving both seq and having a good setup non seq i would never go back.
 
just out of interest is there anyone who has gone to non sequential that is unhappy with it and prefers the sequential setup??

[interloper393]

hehe must admit it is a great setup.. i only went non-seq because my black box was buggered :S

[BlitzBoy]

:
 
like you said horses for courses. with better reliability and better peak power

A non seq will give the same peak power as seq, take it from me as I have mapped many seq and non seq FDs.

Quick question, on a motorway, if you are rolling at 60 mph in top gear one guy in a seq FD and one guy in a non seq, who do you think is gonna pull off quicker?:Hammer

[ro284]

Quick question, on a motorway, if you are rolling at 60 mph in top gear one guy in a seq FD and one guy in a non seq, who do you think is gonna pull off quicker?

Well i\'d like to know, i think this is an interesting thread, i\'m pretty sure cyman has a few mods, if i keep mine i will have very similar mods to cyman, except mine will stay sequential! iv\'e been hoping a comparison thread like this would come along for ages!
Bob

[BlitzBoy]

I would put my money on the seq FD as it will have more torque\\hp and response from 3K to 5Krpm.

[cyman]

I would put my money on the seq FD as it will have more torque\\hp and response from 3K to 5Krpm.

 
explain to me how a sequential is going to have more torque than a non seq between 3-5k.
 
and as far as mods are concerned i have the mods reccomended on various forums to get the most out of non sequential setup. the engine has a streetport, feed downpipe, silenced de cat, and stainless system and an apexi ecu. standard fueling,pipework and intercooler. i get no lag just a really smooth power delivery with a real kick from 3k that just gets better as the revs rise.
 
the whole midrange thing doesnt cut it. sequential first turbo comes in at 2k second comes in at 4500 staggering the power delivery to make it pull better from low down and offer a more linear power delivery non sequential brings both turbos in together from 3-3.5k bringing peak boost before the 2nd turbo on a sequential is even spooling thats why when a non sequential comes on turbo the pull feels stronger than when a seq 2nd turbo comes on because you are getting more of the engines higher power lower in the midrange. which is why the only advantage of sequential is off the mark upto around 30mph before the non sequential gets the power.
 
take a look at my power delivery in this thread http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47519 you will see that i only get 60bhp at 2500k but within 1400rpm it has jumped upto 160bhp as the turbos spool then climbs right upto the peak delivery with the top of the torque from 4k until it drops off slightly at 6k but holds pretty well til redline.
 
my argument with the whole sequential non sequential turbo is not one where i will blatently say sequential is rubbish because its not if you want to be on the turbo from lower down then it is spot on and i cant fault it. but if someone wants to try to argue that non sequential is not worth doing then they need to get out more and not be so narrow minded. my non seq setup (as i have said before)is perfect for me with no flaws. i can drive below 3k off turbo with nearly 100bhp and nice torque which makes for very nice cruising and town driving and when i put my foot down i get a much stronger push in my seat than i ever did driving a sequential, my torque and power are higher lower in the midrange which makes for a perfect trackday car as i can let the revs drop right down to 3500k if i want and still get instant punch out of a corner as i will be on full boost (not that i ever do let the revs drop that low on a track unless its raining )
 
lets face it the first thing serious fd3 owners do as soon as they have the money is put a single on it if either a seq or non seq twin was best everyone would be putting them on and if everyone wanted smooth low down power we would all be driving round in standard rex\'s :Laugh :Laugh :Laugh

[cyman]

Well i\'d like to know, i think this is an interesting thread, i\'m pretty sure cyman has a few mods, if i keep mine i will have very similar mods to cyman, except mine will stay sequential! iv\'e been hoping a comparison thread like this would come along for ages!
Bob

ro284 i am in dorset aswell if you want to see first hand how it goes just let me know and i will take you out in it.
 
also blitz is a top gear 60mph foot down very relevant in real world driving??? if im cruising i\'m not bothered bout gunning it if im over taking or giving it some i wont be in fifth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[interloper393]

the 2nd tubby kicks in at 4.5kish, the non-seq both kick in at 3.5k, doubt there be any difference lol

Im just stiring my big wooden spoon
I was looking at a few maps when i had mine done, seq was more a smooth gradual curve, non-seq was more straight up/shape curve, mines running 350atfhp, doubt that would make much difference.

[cyman]

the 2nd tubby kicks in at 4.5kish, the non-seq both kick in at 3.5k, doubt there be any difference lol
 
Im just stiring my big wooden spoon
I was looking at a few maps when i had mine done, seq was more a smooth gradual curve, non-seq was more straight up/shape curve, mines running 350atfhp, doubt that would make much difference.

yeah i had a look at a few maps aswell and like you said the sequential was more gradual and the non seq was steeper but from around 3-3.5k to 4.5k-5k gives more power and torque. ours are pretty close in bhp mine is 308 whp and 370 fwhp loads of fun :Laugh :Laugh :Laugh

[interloper393]

hehe yup i love mine either way, we`ve just went the cheap ass way to a single lol

[BlitzBoy]

lol a seq will have the same peak power as the non seq if both have the same mods, they will both have the same VE, you can not compare dyno graphs unles both cars have the same mods and boost levels.
ps the highest powered stock seq twins in this country produced 389@wheels.
hell I have seen a seq standard spec with nothing more then an Apexi ECU Exhaust and induction kit get 320rwhp, so you guys saying a non seq will yeild more peak power is simply untrue, a seq and non seq will both yield the same peak power, they both have the same efficency map both will push the same volume of air and the same boost levels