Calling all engine builders

[RobbieRX-7]

Just thought i would show you this simple cheap modification so you can do it before fitting the engine. It can go horribly wrong if you try and do this mod with the engine in the car.

[imebgo]

Still having problems... I took the rear plate of and inspected, everything seemed ok, the movement with the rear plate off was very easy, nothing was sticking and the rotors where still.  I put more engine oil around the shaft and rear stationary gear bearing and replace the end plate. and same problems, the e-shaft becomes much harder to move!

The rear end plate is a reconditioned one, not the one that was on the engine before, could this have anything to do with it?  

James

[nikp]

As you\'re probably aware, it just shouldn\'t be that hard to turn over. Grabbing one of the drive belts i can move my engine by hand. Something is up, and since it gets soooo much easier with the rear plate off, sounds like that could be a culprit. Might be worth measuring the tolerances. Where did you get it from?

[DRAGON]

Reconditioned rear plate?

[antnicuk]

by reconditioned, do you mean lapped?,   if so, when they lap them, if its not done properly the surface may now be flat but its not square to the rest of the block,  basically the rear bearing is then a tiny bit twisted to the shaft which can make it hard to turn.  Try putting the back plate on and removing the stationary gear bolts,  if its difficult to get the gear out with the back plate on then it sounds like it may be twisted which is making it tight on the shaft. try turning the shaft without the rear gear in, if its easy then thats you problem,  you can try shimming the gear when you put it back so it lines up with the shaft bit i would prefer to try another rear plate as they are not expensive for a good second hand one and at the moment its easy to change.  Even if you just borrow one to identify the problem.

Also look at the rea bearing, can you see any new wear maarks from where you have been turning it, if twisted they would only be on one side.

[imebgo]

Its from a tuner, but im no way implying thats the problem, lol, hes been very helpful, theres always the chance I have ****ed it up.

Im gonna phone him and see what he says.

Thanks.

James

[antnicuk]

the tuner wouldnt have lapped it himself, he would have sent it out.   Get a micrometre and measure the tickness at the top and the bottom and then at each side,  also measure the water jacket groove in the same places

[imebgo]

Hes told me its not reconditioned, just used and cleaned up, im gonna take the block down for him to have a look at becuase he also told me not to open it up because the seals dont really like that lol

bugger.

James

[imebgo]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I tried removing the rear stationary gear last night, and nothing changed with it out the shaft was just as hard to move in and out.  

So I changed the rear plate to the old one, and the same problem, so I took the engine right back to the first rotor and oiled up the shaft plenty and repositioned both rotors and reassembled, and as soon as I torque it up it binds!!!

So, this has removed the rear plate and rear stationionary gear/bearing out of the equation

The shaft moves in and out really smoothly as im tightening the tension bolts up (in sequence, half a turn each!!) until it hits the torque setting on my torque wrench, clutching at straws here, but would this happen if those bolts were torqued up to much? Is my wrench not calibrated correctly?

Cheers, James

[antnicuk]

your shaft maybe bent

[imebgo]

Doh!

I guess ill let Jason look at it on saturday, cheers guys!

[Martiny]

I wonder if it would help, to loosen the front stationery gear, just a little, tighten up the through bolts, and lets see what happens.

I mean, if it\'s still stiff with front gear loose, and no rear stationery gear, what on earth could THAT mean?

If it\'s loose, lets now tighten the front stationery gear up , and see at what point the shaft becomes stiff. If still loose, lets now add the rear gear, and tighten up, and lets see.

I am struggling to imagine what the problem could be, though doing all this might give us a better idea.

imebgo, can you tell us exactly what parts you replaced?

did you drop that shaft ! ?

[imebgo]

Thanks for some good ideas,

I have replaced the rear plate with a used ported plate, I have replaced all the seals, and the two housings with brand new housings...

The rotors, bearings and stationary gears and intermediate and front plate are the originals...

I will loosen the gears and see what happens...

I havent dropped the shaft, its just been sat on my workbench for the last few weeks!

The engine was rebuilt two years ago, its done approx 15k which were trouble free, and the only reason for pulling it apart this time was for porting, unfortunatly I dont know what was replaced that time around, but everything looked in good condition.

I checked tolerences for flatness of the plates, and seal wear, and all were well within tolerences, i also checked rotor tolerences, and they were ok.

Thanks, James

[imebgo]

Good Morning,

Quick update, still having problems.

I removed the rear stationary gear and the front one and torqued up the thru bolts to 30Nm (measured by my torque wrench) and it was still jammed...

So, I then torqued up the thrubolts 28Nm and the shaft was free, so I put in the front gear and it stiffened up the shaft a little, but it still moved in an out pretty easily, then after putting in the rear gear, it stiffened it up again and it wouldnt shift!!!

It seems to be combination of everything thats jamming it up, i.e 30Nm of torque for the thru bolts and it jams without the gears in.....  Maybe the shaft is bent... I dont have the means to check that accuratly...

James

[Martiny]

What would the symptoms be if a dowel was bent?