Do i need it or get rid?

interloper393 · August 21, 2007, 08:33:41 PM

Hy peeps ma cars fitted with an apexi and a greddy E01.. do i need the e01? im not clued up enough to use it or know anything about other than today whilst i was playing with it u cn turn the boost up at will lol... scary!!

Altho its looks very kewl i dont think id ever use it and thinkin id be as well selling it on to fund ma single tub route.. what cha reckon.. need pro`s n cons for keeping it :yes

cheers

Carl · August 21, 2007, 09:12:35 PM

On stock twins you don\'t need a boost controller,but on a single turbo you do.
Regards
Carl

interloper393 · August 21, 2007, 09:24:33 PM

kinda what i thought... im planing to go single so maybe worth keeping it then?

Hayward North · August 21, 2007, 09:44:52 PM

Corect me if im wrong but even on stock twins if you have a straight through zorst you would get nasty boost spikes and creep without a boost controler, you need it to keep the boost to 10psi.
Eg. i fitted a straight though zorst and got a boost psttern of 10-14-10, 14 was 2 much for my setup so i perchased a Apexi AVCR boost controler and corrected my boost pattern back down to 10psi i never achived a 10-8-10 pattern but kept the spike to 10psi.

Hayward North · August 21, 2007, 09:46:05 PM

basicly it sees bigger boost than is required and bleeds it off so you keep to what you require.

interloper393 · August 21, 2007, 10:24:57 PM

ahh.. well i have been decated but have the apexi there 2 so hought that stoped the boost creep?

RobbieRX-7 · August 21, 2007, 10:28:33 PM

Im running stock sequential twins with decat, and get a perfect 10-8-10 pattern with no boost spike and no boost controller. The power fc can be finely tuned to cope with spike.

Hayward North · August 21, 2007, 10:38:49 PM

I dont mean to contradict but without the boost controler part of the PFC it cannot control boost by limiting or bleeding the boost off.

A lot of cars can run 10-8-10 with no control and fully decatted with a pfc but there are a lot more than produce a spike on transition of the second turbo and that can mean a lean spot and per det so best to keep some safe guard in there till you know for sure, take it to a tuner and check with him.

The boost control part of the PFC comes as an seperate item and is not incoperated into the PFC itself, they dont come with them as standard and not many people run them as i know of.

Again im sure a standard PFC even with a tune connot control boost spiking or creep without the pfc boost controler part of the pfc, but anyone is welcome to correct me.

m4drx · August 21, 2007, 10:47:22 PM

Quote from: steve garbuttI dont mean to contradict but without the boost controler part of the PFC it cannot control boost by limiting or bleeding the boost off.

A lot of cars can run 10-8-10 with no control and fully decatted with a pfc but there are a lot more than produce a spike on transition of the second turbo and that can mean a lean spot and per det so best to keep some safe guard in there till you know for sure, take it to a tuner and check with him.

The boost control part of the PFC comes as an seperate item and is not incoperated into the PFC itself, they dont come with them as standard and not many people run them as i know of.

Again im sure a standard PFC even with a tune connot control boost spiking or creep without the pfc boost controler part of the pfc, but anyone is welcome to correct me.

Very true and i agree but with a good map this should help/resolve this completely.

m4drx · August 21, 2007, 10:47:22 PM

Quote from: steve garbuttI dont mean to contradict but without the boost controler part of the PFC it cannot control boost by limiting or bleeding the boost off.

A lot of cars can run 10-8-10 with no control and fully decatted with a pfc but there are a lot more than produce a spike on transition of the second turbo and that can mean a lean spot and per det so best to keep some safe guard in there till you know for sure, take it to a tuner and check with him.

The boost control part of the PFC comes as an seperate item and is not incoperated into the PFC itself, they dont come with them as standard and not many people run them as i know of.

Again im sure a standard PFC even with a tune connot control boost spiking or creep without the pfc boost controler part of the pfc, but anyone is welcome to correct me.

Very true and i agree but with a good map this should help/resolve this completely.

Hayward North · August 21, 2007, 11:02:52 PM

I do agree with you, a conservative map you would probably be ok but the only problem with boost spiking is your map probably wont be set up for this, ie you map for 10psi so your tuner corrects all your cells in your correction map to account for 10psi but when you spike you PFC canot correct for this as it duz not work the fuel correction for you, your tuner duz, so your afr\'s will be way lean and the potential for a very hot engine and pre det can become a reality.

Even with a wideband o2 sensor wired into a datalogit connected to you pfc, your PFC cannot workout the fuel that is required for the spike and creep.

In short its not that rotary engines pop due to to much boost but rather due to a lean state cause by not enugh fuel.

A big factor is how your fueling system is set up.

Hayward North · August 21, 2007, 11:26:25 PM

I guess if you get your car maped for 15psi you will then be ok when it spikes but that said you will have to make 15psi on the dino.

Or and this is a big OR, get your tuner to make a rich safe zone from 10psi upto 15psi, this would have to be worked manually insted of on the dino as you wouldnt be able to make 15psi at the rate the mapper would require but there are calculations that can be made to correct for it.

One thing to add is if you are on the stock injectors i think they almost max out at 13psi V 6k so thrashing it you would hit fuel cut and hiting that is a recipe for disaster.

This is a very simplified explanation so please take it as so.

And please feel free to correct me if im wrong.

Hayward North · August 21, 2007, 11:37:29 PM

Forgot to add.

Or you can port your wastgate

Carl · August 22, 2007, 08:35:45 AM

I cannot beleive how many times I have said this on this very forum.
With correct mapping it is perfectly possible for the power FC ecu to control the boost on the stock twins with open exhaust.
It just takes time to use the Apexi\'s controls to do so.You can\'t expect to put on an open exhaust and the Apexi still control boost without things being altered within it\'s controls.
The boost is able to be controlled by the Apexi ECU itself not a seperate thing at all.
If you go single then an aftermarket boost controller is needed.
Regards
Carl

Carl · August 22, 2007, 08:38:32 AM

Also what is the point of running 10psi with an open exhaust?
The reason for mods in the first place is to make more power,with the same boost pattern the power hike would be nominal.
Around 0.9 to 1 bar boost is safe on stock twins with the right map.
Regards
Carl