ECU Code 45 - Charge Control Solenoid

[imebgo]

Thanks man,

Just about to take the dashboard assembly out so I can get to all the wiring.

I *think* the problem is on the Black/White wire between the EGI Relay and the X-05 Connector.  I cut this wire at the EGI Relay and the problem went away, which ruled out the problem existing between the EGI Relay and the injectors (the orange/black cable out of the junction box).

Since I have the X-05 connector disconnected the circuit must be being completed on the way.

Cheers,

James

[imebgo]

I cut into the wire at the EGI Relay and ran a new wire from there to the terminal X-05 connector, basically spurred of for the X-05 bit and it seems to have done something, maybe!  I used to get connectivity to the +12v and the Terminal on the solenoid with the Ignition off/on now I only get it when the ignition is on.

Some progress - it may not have fixed the fault but I reckon im getting closer.

Thanks,

James

[ianelvar]

Sounds like you\'re making some progress. I\'ve re-drawn the diagram with just the bits you\'re working on - I hope it makes it clearer to follow.

I\'d say you\'re on the right track. With the ignition off you should not get 12V with the ignition off. I\'m a bit miffed as to why you\'d get 12V with the ignition off! When I had my lighting problem, I eventually found that the pin in one half of the connector had burnt out, and wasn\'t making proper contact. It was a bitch to see and I only found it because things started working when I wiggled the connector around. I narrowed it down to that connector by exposing bits of the loom and digging one of the multimeter probes just through the insultation of the wire in question, and testing for resistance back to the start of the circuit. I gradually moved down the loom until I found roughly where the problem was. Had my head in the footwell for bloody ages, but was well worth it to find the fault! I couldn\'t believe how thin the wire was to carry the kind of current the fuse for that circuit is rated at. Still, that\'s car wiring for you.

[imebgo]

Thanks for that, very very helpyful.

Strange how I think the fault is between the EGI Relay and the X-05 connector yet it would look like that would take out all of the circuit after that, which is every solenoid.

According to the FSM the Charge control solenoid is "ON" at startup does this mean it must have +12V at startup?

Im trying to get my head around the workings Charge Control Valve, Its got two points on it, it for receiving vacuum/pressure, one side attached to the primary turbo charger side of the Y-Pipe and one side connected to the Charge Control Solenoid.  For this actuator to close (and close the butteryfly) does it need a pressure difference between the primary turbo charger side and the Solenoid side (i.e Solenoid should provide less pressure)

How does the solenoid being "ON" at startup provide this, routing the same part of the turbo system at both sides of the actuator??  In my backwards world it would need provide the secondary boost pressure at startup which will be less than primary whcih would close the butterfly valve, allow the secondary turbo to spool and then when the pressures matches the valve would open??

BUT in order for there to be a pressure difference to exist the valve must be shut in the first place!!! lol

My head hurts.

James

[imebgo]

Ok, the solenoid must be ON and receive +12v because the vacuum is acheived by the vacuum chamber and the check valve.

Cool, getting a better understanding.

So, I have to get that solenoid to be active when the ignition on, which is the definitly the problem now!

[ianelvar]

Mate, I know, it\'s a total nightmare. Getting those little flashes of understanding is in my opinion a most valuable piece of learning. It\'s the things like that that you\'ll never forget. Glad you\'re making some progress. It does seem funny that it\'s only 1 solenoid affected. Have you found the part of the loom that the 12V B/W wire branches to the different wire\'s that feed all the other sols? I\'m not sure how it branches, as it\'s not very clear from the diagram.

You might have been over this already, but just to refresh my memory.

You something very near 0 resistance between 1 pin on the solenoid connector and the relevant pin on the ECU connector?

Get 0V between the 12V side of the sol connector and the batter -Ve terminal when the ignition is off?

Get 12V between the 12V side of the sol connector and the batter -Ve terminal when the ignition is on?

Do you get 12V with the ignition on to the other sols?

Another good step might be to remove the EGI relay and bridge the switched terminals. On the relay it\'ll have a similar diagram to how it\'s shown in the FSM, and will tell you which pins are connected to which bit. The pins will be labeled. ignore the coil ones, you dont want to short them. Give me a shout if you need a hand deciphering it. Then work out which sockets the pins fit into on the relay board, and put a wire between them. This should give you 12V to all the sols regardless of the ignition state, and takes the relay out of the equation.

HTH

[imebgo]

I had another dig around last night, and I what I did was put the multimeter between the B/W cable in the X-05 connector and the Charge Control pin in the ECU, and then put a wire over the solenoid connector, this had continuity, so from the X-05 connector right the way to the ECU we have a circuit, but NO current throught solenoid with the igniton on which is wrong!

What im going to do is check each solenoid on the circuit diagram you kindly put together in the same way and ensure that the circuit is fine from that respect.

I also need to check the common ground for the solenoids, e.g X-05 terminal to the common solenoid ground bridging the terminals of the solenoids.  Is it a good idea to do that, checking for resitance through the ECU? its not going to damage it is it?

Ill check each part of the circuit for resitance etc.. mark it on that diagram and post my results, it may appear what the issue is to someone who knows that they are doing

Thanks,

James

[imebgo]

I had another dig around last night, and I what I did was put the multimeter between the B/W cable in the X-05 connector and the Charge Control pin in the ECU, and then put a wire over the solenoid connector, this had continuity, so from the X-05 connector right the way to the ECU we have a circuit, but NO current throught solenoid with the igniton on which is wrong!

What im going to do is check each solenoid on the circuit diagram you kindly put together in the same way and ensure that the circuit is fine from that respect.

I also need to check the common ground for the solenoids, e.g X-05 terminal to the common solenoid ground bridging the terminals of the solenoids.  Is it a good idea to do that, checking for resitance through the ECU? its not going to damage it is it?

Ill check each part of the circuit for resitance etc.. mark it on that diagram and post my results, it may appear what the issue is to someone who knows that they are doing

Thanks,

James

[ianelvar]

I also need to check the common ground for the solenoids, e.g X-05 terminal to the common solenoid ground bridging the terminals of the solenoids.  Is it a good idea to do that, checking for resitance through the ECU? its not going to damage it is it?

Common ground? You\'re got me confused there. Remember that the ECU grounds each solenoid individually. They have a common 12V feed.

That\'s interesting about having a circuit. What resistance did you get?

What resistance do you get if you measure accross the solenoid pins with nothing connected?

I think I\'m getting a picture of what\'s going on. Would you humour me and measure voltage between the green and red points marked on the new diagram and post back your readings. Do each test with ignition on and off.

The values in green are expected values with ignition off Values in purple are expected values with ignition on.
At points 5 and 6 I\'m not sure what the state will be. This is dependant upon whether this is turned on, and turns off at a certain point, or starts off and turns on after a certain point. I can\'t remember!
Either way, don\'t be suprised if you see 12V at either of those points.
This will indicate that the ECU has turned off the solenoid, as it has let the side that it controls \'float\' up to 12V. This means there is no voltage accross the solenoid (both sides are at the same voltage at this stage), therefore no current will flow, and there is no energy to activate the coil inside.
If the ECU has turned the solenoid on, it will pull the leg of the solenoid that it is connected to down to ground. This means that 12V has to be dropped over the the coil, current flows, and it activates. Don\'t fall into the trap of thinking that seeing 12V on the ECU side of the solenoid means that it should be turned on - this is not the case.

[imebgo]

OK, ill measure according to the grid.

One thing, just to clarify im using the multi tester correctly, how do I measure voltage at a single point, I haev a multitester with a +/- terminal do I just one terminal at the point in the diagram and the other on the battery negative?

EDIT

What I meant by the common ground was seeing if there was continuity to ground after the ECU, eg from Point 5 on the diagram to ground after the ECU ?

Thanks,

James

[ianelvar]

OK, ill measure according to the grid.

One thing, just to clarify im using the multi tester correctly, how do I measure voltage at a single point, I haev a multitester with a +/- terminal do I just one terminal at the point in the diagram and the other on the battery negative?

Yes, that\'s it.

EDIT

What I meant by the common ground was seeing if there was continuity to ground after the ECU, eg from Point 5 on the diagram to ground after the ECU ?

Thanks,

James

Ah, no worries. When the ECU is trying to activate the solenoid you should find very low resitance between the pin and battery -Ve terminal. When it\'s trying to turn the solenoid off you should find it has very high resistance between the pin and -Ve. Testing in that way shouldn\'t hurt at all.

[imebgo]

I played around last night and measured the voltages as you asked, all the measured voltages with the ignition off was 0v, and with the igniton on I got 12v at 1-5 apart from 6, 6 was a bit strange really, I tested the voltage at the termianl block in the ECU, without it plugged into the ECU if made 12v and when I plugged it in it would fluctuate, possibly the probe wasnt making a good connection?

I also butchered the wiring harness and took the solenoid out of the circuit and ran it directly from the EGI relay and the terminal on the ECU, no joy their either, exactly the same voltages but it would not activate the solenoid.  I also checked for continuity from the ground terminals on the ecu harness a ground point and that was fine.

I also tested without the solenoid connector just incase that was broken, same result.

I checked the pins on the ECU for they are fine.

so! what does all this mean

1) Broken Terminal ECU Connector (the yellow bit!)
2) Broken ECU
3) Could the ECU be in some sort of strange mode because it reported the charge control solenoid fault, and now it has disabled that solenoid?

Bugger!

James

[ianelvar]

Nice one, that helps a lot. The ECU could be broken, but there\'s an easy way to test that. Set your meter to test resistance, and measure between the turbo control pin and battery -Ve. Let me know what the reading is.

There will be some kind of transistor in the ECU for each of the solenoids. It is possible that one has given up, but it\'s unlikely. I think I\'ve got a jap spec ECU I could lend you to see if it helps, but I\'d like not to fall into the trap of blaming the ECU just yet.

1) very possible
2) possible
3) doubt it very much, but they do do some very weird stuff!

You\'re making good progress though. Have you tried sticking a paperclip in the pin of the yellow connector on the loom, and testing for resistance between there and the solenoid connector? It\'s important at this point to test for resistance and not use the continuity function on the multimeter. Anything over an Ohm or two might mean it wouldn\'t work properly. This applies for testing the ECU pin as well. Not sure if that\'s what you\'re using anyway, but just wanted to make sure.

Again, let me know what the readings are. I\'m pretty confident we\'ve nearly cracked it!

[imebgo]

OK, ill do that, but I want to solder my wiring loom back up first so its back to into its original state, its a bit butchered at the moment

Thanks for your help, I will have some results up tommorow

J

[ianelvar]

Dude, how\'s it going?