Not convinced about my brakes?

[allstaruk]

Hi ya guys,

Here is the dilema I\'ve been driving some other cars lately, and the brakes feel better, now don\'t get my wrong my Fd\'s breaks stop the car and they stop it well but they don\'t feel very good.

I\'ve been driving a lexus is200 sport recently and when I press the brakes they engage right at the top and it feels solid where as the rx7 just doesn\'t, when I press the brakes in the FD  have to push quite a way before they engauge and the peddle never goes solid once its engaged, once the brakes are actually working I can still (with a bit of force) get the peddle to touch the floor. They feel a bit spongy, I\'d like somthing with a lot more "feel" to it, could someone with brakes they know are set up properly describe how they feel, I want to know if I have somthing I can cure or whether this is somthing I\'ve just got to get used to.

Alan

[RAW]

i find the brakes in modern cars very grabby and over-servoed compared to the fd. the fd is much more progressive and does require more pressure to get the same effect. having said this i have braided lines, and master cylinder brace, and upgraded pads so i doubt my brakes feel like the standard ones! i drove a new audi recently and nearly put myself throught the front window at the first junction i stopped at!
 
i really liked the progressive nature of them on track-i was able to brake hard without the abs engaging. having said that i boiled the fluid in a 20min sesssion so some uprated stuff is needed!
 
maybe you just need to adapt back to it once you have been in a newer car?

[allstaruk]

Quite possibly, I\'m just not sure they used to feel like this, I don\'t like the grabby feel of modern breaks but I like to feel that there is smothing solid that the peddle is attaced to rather than the spongy feeling I\'m getting.

I\'ve got Uprated Disks/Pads and braided lines on the back.

A

[iaint]

Could also be some air in the system or old fluid.  Replace the cheap stuff before going mad on big setups!

[clive]

Quite possibly, I\'m just not sure they used to feel like this, I don\'t like the grabby feel of modern breaks but I like to feel that there is smothing solid that the peddle is attaced to rather than the spongy feeling I\'m getting.

I\'ve got Uprated Disks/Pads and braided lines on the back.

A

Hi A,

What pads / discs have you got ? also braided lines all round would help

[TonyC]

Soft, and songy pedal will be fluid - when was it last chnaged or even bleed. Should be chnaged at least every 2 years. Forget pads and discs and braided hoses - get the fluid system bled and refreshed.If after doing that you still find the pedal is soft or spongy - or even after bleeding the pedal feels fine but then becomes soft again then you are looking at seals in the master cylinder allowing fluid to bleed back past the piston in the cylinder.

Hi ya guys,

Here is the dilema I\'ve been driving some other cars lately, and the brakes feel better, now don\'t get my wrong my Fd\'s breaks stop the car and they stop it well but they don\'t feel very good.

I\'ve been driving a lexus is200 sport recently and when I press the brakes they engage right at the top and it feels solid where as the rx7 just doesn\'t, when I press the brakes in the FD  have to push quite a way before they engauge and the peddle never goes solid once its engaged, once the brakes are actually working I can still (with a bit of force) get the peddle to touch the floor. They feel a bit spongy, I\'d like somthing with a lot more "feel" to it, could someone with brakes they know are set up properly describe how they feel, I want to know if I have somthing I can cure or whether this is somthing I\'ve just got to get used to.

Alan

[allstaruk]

I changed the fluid at the begining of summer and bled the system then will do it again this week, what fluid do you guys recomend?

Clive, I\'ve got black diamond discks (drilled and grooved) and Hawk Hp pads standard lines on the front and braided on the rear.

So what does it feel like when you have a working system? Is there a definate point where it feels solid as you push?

A

[AtomicRex]

Before I had the big brakes put on my car the brakes would do exactly as described!  My standard brakes were awful....spongy non responsive, and absolutely no feel.  You can do many different things with the brakes, remembering that the system is probably 10 years old compared to your Lexus that is only a couple of years old.

Changing the discs and pads is a good plan....the braided lines are great as they reduce the hydraulic flex in the pipe.

But I would suggest that you change the fluid firstly as it may have water in the fluid.

You can go for a big brake conversion....but then you get into difficulties with over braking....nothing worse than not being able to stop because your brakes are toooooooo good!

[AtomicRex]

Dot 4 is the better fluid to go for....dont go for 5 as you will end up changing it more than you change you pants!  Also you would need to change a lot of the seals in the brakes to cover the change.

Is the master cylinder ok?

[allstaruk]

Not sure on the master cyclinder I think its ok, not to sure how I would check , think my first port of call is to change the fluid, what make would anyone recomend?

A

[AtomicRex]

AP551 is a good one to run, or if you really want to give her a good christmas pressie...ap600  Big difference in price though!

[iaint]

I changed the fluid at the begining of summer and bled the system then will do it again this week, what fluid do you guys recomend?

Clive, I\'ve got black diamond discks (drilled and grooved) and Hawk Hp pads standard lines on the front and braided on the rear.

So what does it feel like when you have a working system? Is there a definate point where it feels solid as you push?

A

I suspect mine have a little air in the system as the first press has a little give in it, aftwr that they\'re pretty rock hard.  I\'m running 5.1 race fluid and braided lines all round.  BD front disks, HP+ rear, HT-10 front.  The peddle feel is great (after the initial application) and I don\'t find it takes a huge ammount of pressure to get full force out of them.

[clive]

I changed the fluid at the begining of summer and bled the system then will do it again this week, what fluid do you guys recomend?

Clive, I\'ve got black diamond discks (drilled and grooved) and Hawk Hp pads standard lines on the front and braided on the rear.

So what does it feel like when you have a working system? Is there a definate point where it feels solid as you push?

A

With HP+ you should have VERY good initial bite, indeed I never recomend them these days for the front as they are very "grab n stop" with very little feel and they fade on the front.


Now I know what pads you are using I think you should maybe look at the pistons in the calipers to see if they are seized!

[allstaruk]

I\'ll get involved and see what I can find I think new fluid and a good bleed is my first port of call.

Is it possible to adjuct where they bite on the peddle?

A

[AtomicRex]

I suspect mine have a little air in the system as the first press has a little give in it, aftwr that they\'re pretty rock hard.  I\'m running 5.1 race fluid and braided lines all round.  BD front disks, HP+ rear, HT-10 front.  The peddle feel is great (after the initial application) and I don\'t find it takes a huge ammount of pressure to get full force out of them.

5.1 is Dot5......It is so hydroscopic that you run the risk of boiling your brakes, especially in a road car with the continual starting and stopping (yes I know thats what they are used for ) as that is when the moisture gets in.  A quality Dot4 is far better....I dont even run it on my car  I dont believe that the necessary frequency of changing the fluid out-ways that of the implied benefits.