Stock vs. Non-Stock...discuss

[normski]

Buy stock, keep it stock. End of story!

It\'s the only way the vehicle will hold any value to you.

Just my 2p

Sorry don\'t agree, Check out the Distinctive cars at York. to see that, MODed FD\'s can cost loads of dosh. £39000.00 to name but one. :Typing

[Jit]

Sorry don\'t agree, Check out the Distinctive cars at York. to see that, MODed FD\'s can cost loads of dosh. £39000.00 to name but one. :Typing

I cant be arsed to go to distinctive cars in york or indeed any website, but anyone who actually pays that sum of money for a 90s jap coupe is a mug.
I dont think an FD is ever worth more than 12-13k

[Bramble]

I dont think an FD is ever worth more than 12-13k

:2Rolleyes to me something like a spirit R is priceless.

[20B_boy]

I dont think an FD is ever worth more than 12-13k

I agree, the only exceptions being untouched Spirit R\'s imo.

I bet Distintive cars have sold loads of FDs for over 20K :rollin That \'drag\' car for £22.5K?!! It has a big single, a ported motor, may be some coilovers and a rear wing. Realistically its probably worth a 1/4 of that in the UK atm. Like half the other cars on there! I didnt check the details for the £60K R33, even is it is a 400R...

[robedwards99]

Sorry don\'t agree, Check out the Distinctive cars at York. to see that, MODed FD\'s can cost loads of dosh. £39000.00 to name but one. :Typing

Please note I said hold any value to you.

I say this as I have absolutely no intention at all even in the back of my mind of selling mine and I expect most owners of stock FD\'s feel the same way.

It seems to me that people who go the modding route tend to get shot of them fairy quickly.... hence they feel no personal value for the car.

I also think given a couple more years there simply won\'t be any stock FD\'s in the country so they will be more valuable.

.. I think thats about 4p\'s worth I\'ve given now! :p

[Jit]

I also think given a couple more years there simply won\'t be any stock FD\'s in the country so they will be more valuable.

great minds think alike eh. thats exactly my thinking behind taking mine back to stock! shame it aint got a stock colour though stock engine should be good enough i hope though:p  :cheers

[Spen]

I know a lot of the 80\'s cars are worth a lot more for a mint standard example now than a modified one, unless it is a fully prepped track car or similar.

My FD is mostly stock at the moment, I plan to do some reliability mods but to keep the original parts in case they need to go back on in future.

[chris]

great minds think alike eh. thats exactly my thinking behind taking mine back to stock! shame it aint got a stock colour though stock engine should be good enough i hope though:p  :cheers

One small question, with regards your stock engine, why did you take that mint set of stock plates you got from Tim, which were well within manufacturers tollerance and have them lapped? removing all factory hardening?

[memski]

Imho the stock car isnt ideal and is fundamentally flawed. The cooling system is rubbish for instance. Personally the minimum I would want would be a UK mapped Apexi power FC with big radiator. Best bet is to get a single turbo, the twins have the most ridiculous birds nest of piping and make SO much heat. single turbo quickly solves this.

Ant.

I agree with that, there were lots of things I wasn\'t happy with on my stock example - mainly cooling related and overcomplicated setups.

Also, is a modified fd "put back to stock" going to be worth as much as an unfettled stock car?

[elford_tim]

I\'m actually sitting comfortably on both sides of the fence here .

My FC is stock apart from exhaust, downpipe and airfilter, and it\'ll stay that way. In fact, I\'ll even have some resto work done on it next year.

OTOH the "pending" FD will retain its stock appearance with the possible exception of a set of TE37s. Under the bonnet there will be a few upgrades (Power FC, downpipe, hi-flo car, exhaust, uprated SMIC, alloy rad) in the spirit of optimising what\'s there rather than go mental on it.

IMHO unless you\'re looking at keeping an FD for 10-15 years at the very least, retaining its value shouldn\'t enter the equation very much. They\'re still used cars and prices *will* go down until the Fast & Delirious[1] crowd is finished with them.

[1] No offence to anybody here intended, but I think we\'ve all seen people purchase FDs and run them into the ground recently on account of having no clue whatsoever about them.

[BlitzBoy]

Personally I have spent a small fortune on getting my car to perform in the way I want it to and Im nearing the end of the Journey. Only a few more things to do. When finished there is NO WAY I am selling it, I will be buried in it rather then give it to someone to have the pleasure in it.
Ive have attained some titles with it which make it worth it, but the biggest prize is having the grin factor when I blow practically everything off the road or Track(well maybe not yet coz I cant drive for sh1t yet :rollin). Its having a car that is unique thats the biggest pleasure.
I dont think I could ever go back to a stock FD after experiancing the power of a highly modded rotary. The only stock FD I would consider is a white Spirit R mmmmmm

[Jit]

One small question, with regards your stock engine, why did you take that mint set of stock plates you got from Tim, which were well within manufacturers tollerance and have them lapped? removing all factory hardening?

Ok as i understand it, theres 2 layers of factory hardening...i have not removed all the factory hardening as you suggest...the first layer hasnt even been removed but having taken advice from numerous sources and having considered everything including what Tim said to me, I decided that they should be ground. There were a couple of marks of stepped wear which i wasnt happy with and I didnt want a seal to catch on them so that was my main thinking. I also gathered that Tims main reasoning for not doing this was that the plates dont come back square with the main bearings. I spoke again to numerous people and decided to send them up to Pip as he assured me that they will come back square. Hardly much of a detraction from stock in my opinion and a lot of well known tuners do this to including Racing Beat who have been around longer than most.
Edit - Having now spoken to Pip, he says that the best plate had only 1.5 thou ground off and the "worst" for want of a better word had 2.5 thou ground off. As I understand it the second layer of factory hardening is 6 thou thick, so ive still got the factory hardening.

[chris]

Ok as i understand it, theres 2 layers of factory hardening...i have not removed all the factory hardening as you suggest...the first layer hasnt even been removed but having taken advice from numerous sources and having considered everything including what Tim said to me, I decided that they should be ground. There were a couple of marks of stepped wear which i wasnt happy with and I didnt want a seal to catch on them so that was my main thinking. I also gathered that Tims main reasoning for not doing this was that the plates dont come back square with the main bearings. I spoke again to numerous people and decided to send them up to Pip as he assured me that they will come back square. Hardly much of a detraction from stock in my opinion and a lot of well known tuners do this to including Racing Beat who have been around longer than most.
Edit - Having now spoken to Pip, he says that the best plate had only 1.5 thou ground off and the "worst" for want of a better word had 2.5 thou ground off. As I understand it the second layer of factory hardening is 6 thou thick, so ive still got the factory hardening.

I can only judge from experience, all engines that I have stripped, or viewed that have or seen stripped have shown very severe oil control ring wear, for very little mileage, This is due to the surface finish. Without comparing the surface finish of your plates I would be suprised if you were able to achieve the finish obtained on a factory mazda plate. IMO It just seems a shame to lap a perfectly good set of mazda plates which fall well within factory tollerances....:3gears-rh

[Jit]

Interesting. By surface finish, i assume you are reffering to smoothness of the finish. I did take this into account when weighing up the pros and cons and did still decide to go ahead with this an also to use brand new oil control rings. In the end, i only lapped them for my peace of mind as i was a bit worried an apex could catch on one of the wear marks (albeit the worst - again for want a of a better word).
Di the wear to the oil control rings youve seen also correlate with the housings that said oil control rings were in contact with? (ie possible gear backing out?)

[chris]

Interesting. By surface finish, i assume you are reffering to smoothness of the finish. I did take this into account when weighing up the pros and cons and did still decide to go ahead with this an also to use brand new oil control rings. In the end, i only lapped them for my peace of mind as i was a bit worried an apex could catch on one of the wear marks (albeit the worst - again for want a of a better word).
Di the wear to the oil control rings youve seen also correlate with the housings that said oil control rings were in contact with? (ie possible gear backing out?)[/QUOTE


The oil control rings can only be effected by the housings if the housings had shrunk/been crushed, if this was the case, excessive oil control ring wear would be the least of your worries!

Stock mazda plates show very little wear on the oil control rings for well over100k (not that you are likely to see that on a first time round engine in an fd, and assuming a well maintained car) however engines that I have experienced which have been lapped and covered around 10-20k have very severely worn/worn out control rings.
Different lapping companies can achieve different grades of surface finish, and your company if used by pip should be well proven. I can only go on my experience. I would prefer for a standard build engine which is likely to stay in a car for many many years to use plates which I know are going to give the internal components (oil control rings, side seals and apex seals) as little frictional wear as possible :Talking1