3 rotor conversion

[kev-yorks]

Tony torque rises steeply up to 4800rpm its a flat line then to 5800rpm then drops of slowly from there. As regards the sleeves when i remove them i\'ll be porting as well so like you won\'t get a figure for sleeve removal only. All being well the plan is to pull the engine at the end of the year for a precautionary strip down port and sleeve removal.
Kevin

[banned advertiser]

You can buy from racing beat ali ends which will make the 20b pretty much the same weight as a stock 13b, Im amazed that they are not racing more of them because of the obvious advantage, cant see how 2 cars same wieght but one with a 20b would be slower??

[John Yorke]

I think maybe next year we will see if the 20b in a FD is a worthwhile cause in this country, the 13b has made MASSIVE improvements over the last year or so, if you think about it +400atw for a FD at that time was pretty much a dream, now, it is not that unusual - life span? that is another story, I recon running 1bar+boost at that level of power an engine refresh will be needed every 1 - 2 years and I would assume with a 20b it would be pretty much the same. Yes, you can run them into the gound and watch your bhp / torque drop with the milage.
You have to remember these engines were built to run 220ish day in day out till they died [50 - 80K miles] double the power and wear will increase by 150%+ or more.
Which ever way you get to that sort of power you need to factor in MUCH higher maintenance costs.

[normski]

Well if your right about the life of the engine,which I hope not, I will be doing around 3 for 4 K a year in it so it should last Quite a while anyway. Pip is hoping to pull over 400FT/T out of my thing but we will see: I think it\'s true to say, it\'s going to be big anyway. I am hoping to give the enzo\'s, Zonda\'s of this World a bloody good run for their money, if what Pip says is true.

Only a couple of weeks to wait and see time.

I think that sort of power is well over the top for road use anyway, 99.9% of the time you just can\'t use it far too much punch, but as they say it\'s nice to know it\'s there if you want it ( I hope) :Thumbs-up

[normski]

I love the idea of the 3-rotor conversion - it\'s just stunning but it\'s not a rational choice - it\'s more a labour of love!

For the price you could do a very high-revving 13b - it\'d have a huge advantage round track letting you stay in gear longer.  You could also run it at high-boost mapped safely.  I\'d love one.

It still wouldn\'t be a 20b though.

I\'ve often wondered if a n/a 20b would be feasible for ultimate reliability and brappy power..?

Other alternatives would be to use some of the custom sandwiches from Oz - close to the length of the 13b but triple rotor. Mmmmm.  But you\'d pay for it.

Normski - will you be at Le Mans for the 24 hours?  If so I\'d love to catch up with you and have a nose round El Beast.

Iain

We will be at LeMans this year, At the Expo site right opposite the mad Bar/or pub, just up from the bridge and main entrance to the track. if that makes sense to those who know the track. Look for the big Motorhome and Marcos cars right by the fence. See you there.

[iaint]

We will be at LeMans this year, At the Expo site right opposite the mad Bar/or pub, just up from the bridge and main entrance to the track. if that makes sense to those who know the track. Look for the big Motorhome and Marcos cars right by the fence. See you there.

 :cheers  :3gears-lh

[Newera]

I love the idea of the 3-rotor conversion - it\'s just stunning but it\'s not a rational choice - it\'s more a labour of love!

For the price you could do a very high-revving 13b - it\'d have a huge advantage round track letting you stay in gear longer.  You could also run it at high-boost mapped safely.  I\'d love one.

It still wouldn\'t be a 20b though.

I\'ve often wondered if a n/a 20b would be feasible for ultimate reliability and brappy power..?

Other alternatives would be to use some of the custom sandwiches from Oz - close to the length of the 13b but triple rotor. Mmmmm.  But you\'d pay for it.

Normski - will you be at Le Mans for the 24 hours?  If so I\'d love to catch up with you and have a nose round El Beast.

Iain

The BEST sounding road use N/A rotary I\'ve ever heard was Scoot\'s - derived of 2 x 12A\'s. Stunning sound, making around 500 bhp. Sadly, being a one off engine - it hasn\'t been reliable... but had it been made from a 20b, it probably would be.

Glen Butcher\'s race car project will hopefully be completed someday, that should be a demonstration of how to make a pukka N/A rotary, albeit for track use...

I remember having a stock 20b Cosmo for a few weeks before it was sold to Stephen Butcher (Glen\'s Brother) and became one of the first Cosmo JCESE\'s in the UK about 5 years ago... I loved the torque and the silky whallop it had.

I think iaint has hit the nail on the head above.

Miguel.

[normski]

I think the noise is out of this World from the 20B with a screemer pipe on it. As far a weight placement goes, That is one of the the things Pip has been working so hard to get right. This 50/50 placement. Althought not exactly the same as the 13B setup, it is as near as he can get it which is around 49.5%./50.05% which is good enough for me it\'s not balls out track car, and hope it never will be. Get it clear here it\'s used on the road. All these Top gear style test are on airfileds with only fresh air coming in the opposite direction, Not  sod off great trucks. Lets face it, who drives cars to there absolute limit as they do on test tracks. I reckon you do that with my thing ( on the public road, and A, you will get stuffed in the nut house, thats if you don\'t kill yourself first, which is more the probable outcome. For road use, these type of machines need ultimate respect or they will kill you stone cold dead! As they say theres a time and a place!  

Not sure but I think he has managed to shift the whole thing back around 6 inches without messing with the bulkhead. Done by gearbox mods, and bellhousing mods. The only thing I am not looking forward to is the new clutch, in or out. Deep joy! great in a jam A! twinplate system as single system is just not up to the job.

Still keeping my Aquamist system onboard and I hope to get some nice Defi Guages on the dash, get rid of that A/piller pod, Guages did not work anyway. Engine block and gearbox/prop, should in car by around Mon or Tuesday this week. Then it\'s all those nice little silly bits which make it all work. I HOPE!  :evillaugh

[kev-yorks]

I think the noise is out of this World from the 20B with a screemer pipe on it. As far a weight placement goes, That is one of the the things Pip has been working so hard to get right. This 50/50 placement. Althought not exactly the same as the 13B setup, it is as near as he can get it which is around 49.5%./50.05% which is good enough for me it\'s not balls out track car, and hope it never will be. Get it clear here it\'s used on the road. All these Top gear style test are on airfileds with only fresh air coming in the opposite direction, Not  sod off great trucks. Lets face it, who drives cars to there absolute limit as they do on test tracks. I reckon you do that with my thing ( on the public road, and A, you will get stuffed in the nut house, thats if you don\'t kill yourself first, which is more the probable outcome. For road use, these type of machines need ultimate respect or they will kill you stone cold dead! As they say theres a time and a place!  

Not sure but I think he has managed to shift the whole thing back around 6 inches without messing with the bulkhead. Done by gearbox mods, and bellhousing mods. The only thing I am not looking forward to is the new clutch, in or out. Deep joy! great in a jam A! twinplate system as single system is just not up to the job.

Still keeping my Aquamist system onboard and I hope to get some nice Defi Guages on the dash, get rid of that A/piller pod, Guages did not work anyway. Engine block and gearbox/prop, should in car by around Mon or Tuesday this week. Then it\'s all those nice little silly bits which make it all work. I HOPE!  :evillaugh

Well said that man! The sound is somethink else but more for the benefit of other\'s you\'ll be passing Normski. Screemer pipe doesn\'t come into play that much to be honest Normski as there arn\'t the roads to keep it up on boost for any length of time in this country, 10secs max and you\'ll be lifting of or cruising. Mine is running a 55/45 front to back weight split now after all the mods with no detriment to handing. As for the twin plate you\'ll get used to it, i\'ve found about 1200rpm works with mine from standstill but make sure its clear in front of you when you release the pedal.
Kevin

[normski]

Am I right in thinking you have a sorted FD with a 20B under the hood ? :god

[20B_boy]

Not sure but I think he has managed to shift the whole thing back around 6 inches without messing with the bulkhead. Done by gearbox mods, and bellhousing mods.

Are you using a sheet-metal intake manifold/plenum? cause the gear box isnt really an issue when u move it backwards - its the height of the stock plenum (hits b/head) that stops you going backwards unless u lower the block about 4"\'s from recollection...

What ecu are u using Norm?

[normski]

Pass, old mate, best person th ask at this time Pip. I think he dropped the engine although I would not put my life on that one.

How is yours going ? I thought your Ft/T would have been over 400 by now. Have you upgraded that Turbo yet ? :driving

[iaint]

Am I right in thinking you have a sorted FD with a 20B under the hood ? :god

Look at his avatar... Cosmo!

[normski]

Look at his avatar... Cosmo!

Are so it,s a Cosmo, not an FD, Where is the link to the pics. ? :WaveBye

[FDDreamer]

Awesome.I love reading about projects like this. Hadn\'t imagined so much effort would be required for this conversion, i\'d always imagined this transplant to be a case of \'one in, one out\'!! How wrong could i be!!

Excellent to see that you are factoring in the balance of the weight distribution...FDs are one of the few cars that can genuinely boast this feature (unlike many modern cars who, after independent testing, are found out to be telling porkies!!) and it would be a great shame to compromise the balance.

One thing i was wondering about, having just been out in a car with approximately 380lb/ft (not an FD mind) is do you have any kind of traction/stability control aside from your right foot? Otherwise the onset of torque may make the car very very hard to keep in check. And power is nothing without control, as they say.

I wonder if this is what makes the 13B a popular choice for tuners in Japan, the engine is torquey enough to pull nicely through the rev range but the real power comes higher up, after the car has the full benefit of traction. Nothing is more annoying than watching a \'slower\' car pull away as you struggle and struggle for grip. I\'m sure once you find it the car will, if your suggested spec is anything to go by, be a very good match for the Enzo\'s of this world (but where to find them??!) but remember that thing is more like a computer on wheels than a sports car...um no offence to any Ferrari owners/fans...just an opinion!