Champagne bubbles...more info please!

[D2BBA]

Hi guys,

I\'ve been reading through the FAQs and questions lately on cooling systems and there seems to be many references to diagnosing water seal failure via campagne bubbles.  This got me thinking.  

My car starts great, the compression test results are fine and this led me to believe a re-build was done before export (FD covering 52K miles).  I always get a bit of smoke on start up then it goes.  It took it this was just to do with running the car infrequently.  I thought i\'d test for the old bubbles.

Removed rad cap and started car and noticed a very very small stream of bubbles from the very bottom of the neck.  It stops and starts but it is sooo small it wouldn\'t even photograph to show you.  It doesn\'t even disturb the surface of the coolant.  Is even a few bubbles a sign a failure.  Just replaced my thermo 5 miles ago, and have been burping the system, so dont know if its still an airlock?

What do you think?  How much is too much?  Am I just paranoid (for a change!).
Chris

[D2BBA]

Very poor picture if it helps.  Arrow marks where the v.small bubbles appear.  This picture was took when they were present, so as you can see they aren\'t that big or numerous.



Any thoughts?

[iaint]

I\'d guess it\'s nothing to worry about.  I did a few thousand miles with mine doing an impression of a boiling kettle before finally having the rebuild done and it was still running ok - just got sick of constant top-ups!

[fro]

Does the car overheat during normal driving? If so (and there\'s no external leaks) it\'s worth further investigation. If not, you\'re just being paranoid

Very poor picture if it helps.  Arrow marks where the v.small bubbles appear.  This picture was took when they were present, so as you can see they aren\'t that big or numerous.



Any thoughts?

[D2BBA]

I\'d guess it\'s nothing to worry about.  I did a few thousand miles with mine doing an impression of a boiling kettle before finally having the rebuild done and it was still running ok - just got sick of constant top-ups!

Cheers mate,

Just needed to know how many bubbles people were getting prior to failure, and that answered the bill!!!!  The rest of the posts just pointed to bubbles, not the kettle style!

Will give the car a couple of good runs over weekend to see what happens!

Thanks
Chris

[Jono FD3]

I\'ve got a suspicious one for you: Milky goop in the oil filler neck ( symptoms of a head gasket failure on a piston engine) but yet no water is being used?
sounds a bit Kift, could it be down to the oil, as it started just after an oil chainge?!

Papping my pants about the reactions!!

Jono

[andrewrx7]

I\'ve got a suspicious one for you: Milky goop in the oil filler neck ( symptoms of a head gasket failure on a piston engine) but yet no water is being used?
sounds a bit Kift, could it be down to the oil, as it started just after an oil chainge?!

Papping my pants about the reactions!!

Jono

This has been covered before - seems to be pretty common. Personally, I\'ve had this on both my FDs, a 92 UK and an 02 import. Unless there\'s a huge quantity, probably nothing to worry about.  

[Ricco_04]

Also there is a hell of a lot more moisture in the air this time of year!

[gsb876]

Its a very strange one indeed, if you have a power fc keep an eye on the reading for the water temp, so if the water does disappear somewhere you can see it straight away and stop the car before you do loads of damage.

Saved me when my rad had a small split in it last year  :god

But keep checking and see if this continues frequently.

Also is it the pic quality or does the water look really dirty

[D2BBA]

Hi guv,

The car is running almost pure coolant.  Its a funny off-red colour.  Just changed her, so its as clean as you can get!!!!

Heard many people to say to run pure coolant, however I have topped up with water on occassion.  Anyone else got any thoughts on this?

Got a GReddy water temp gauge, which I spend more time looking at than the road!, Hopefully this will give me an idea if temps are getting too high!

Cheers
Chris

[andrewrx7]

Hi guv,

The car is running almost pure coolant.  Its a funny off-red colour.  Just changed her, so its as clean as you can get!!!!

Heard many people to say to run pure coolant, however I have topped up with water on occassion.  Anyone else got any thoughts on this?

Recently read about this - the best cooling is all water, but not really suitable for all year road use. Water is an amazing molecule, and has a very high capacity for heat. A mix of water and coolant is the best allrounder - it helps dissapate heat, while protecting against freezing, and will also contain corrosion inhibitors. Going pure coolant doesn\'t give you any further benefit - indeed it may have its downsides - a bigger hit in your wallet for no reason, but because the pure coolant is actually more viscous than water, you will probably get a poorer cooling effect, since it cannot flow as fast, nor contact surfaces as efficiently. Cavitation may also be a problem, in that suspended bubbles will not seperate as fast out of the coolant, compared to water/coolant mix or water alone. This may be what you\'re seeing - air that is constantly being recirculated since it is harder for it to seperate out in the pure coolant you\'re using?

Don\'t get me wrong, pure 100% coolant will still work, just not as well as the normal coolant/water mix. I was thinking along the same lines - more coolant, leads to more cooling effect. I thought, before I raise the coolant level, lets have a look on the web, and read quite a few articles and they all said the same thing - i.e. paraphrased above. There will no doubt be other opinions, please correct if anything is wrong ( :flamed )!

[g11ary]

I\'ve got a suspicious one for you: Milky goop in the oil filler neck ( symptoms of a head gasket failure on a piston engine) but yet no water is being used?
sounds a bit Kift, could it be down to the oil, as it started just after an oil chainge?!

Papping my pants about the reactions!!

Jono

If you are not losing any water it will be down to the damper nights and days. Its just a small build up. Doubt anything to worry about.

[g11ary]

Hi guv,

The car is running almost pure coolant.  Its a funny off-red colour.  Just changed her, so its as clean as you can get!!!!

Heard many people to say to run pure coolant, however I have topped up with water on occassion.  Anyone else got any thoughts on this?

Got a GReddy water temp gauge, which I spend more time looking at than the road!, Hopefully this will give me an idea if temps are getting too high!

Cheers
Chris

On a road car you should not be running pure anti freeze, as Andrew says waste of money and will give you higher temps, but if you mean coolant not anti freeze then only race cars are doing this, not point in road cars. Royal Purple do Purple Ice, its a coolant not anti freeze. It is thinner than water and fills the rough casting in you water system so allows a better flow aiding cooling. Generally 1-2 bottles of Royal Purple is enough unless you are running high boost dragging or racing, then more might be wanted.

[ro284]

Corrosion inhibitor is good!

[andrewrx7]

Recently read about this - the best cooling is all water, but not really suitable for all year road use. Water is an amazing molecule, and has a very high capacity for heat. A mix of water and coolant is the best allrounder - it helps dissapate heat, while protecting against freezing, and will also contain corrosion inhibitors. Going pure coolant doesn\'t give you any further benefit - indeed it may have its downsides - a bigger hit in your wallet for no reason, but because the pure coolant is actually more viscous than water, you will probably get a poorer cooling effect, since it cannot flow as fast, nor contact surfaces as efficiently. Cavitation may also be a problem, in that suspended bubbles will not seperate as fast out of the coolant, compared to water/coolant mix or water alone. This may be what you\'re seeing - air that is constantly being recirculated since it is harder for it to seperate out in the pure coolant you\'re using?

Don\'t get me wrong, pure 100% coolant will still work, just not as well as the normal coolant/water mix. I was thinking along the same lines - more coolant, leads to more cooling effect. I thought, before I raise the coolant level, lets have a look on the web, and read quite a few articles and they all said the same thing - i.e. paraphrased above. There will no doubt be other opinions, please correct if anything is wrong ( :flamed )!

Some quick references:

1) Antifreeze Facts

    *

      Glycol is the main ingredient used in all forms of antifreeze. Modern engines use a mixture of glycol and water as a coolant.
    *

      Using antifreeze without mixing it with water can damage the engine by causing high operating temperatures. Additives in the antifreeze can also gum up cooling system passages and damage water pump seals. Glycol should make up between 40 and 60 percent of the mix for best results.
    *

      Using a proper ratio of antifreeze to water ensures acceptable freezing and boiling protection for your vehicle. Distilled water ensures long engine life. The use of a refractometer to measure the percent of antifreeze in the mixture is also recommended.

2) An old article about high concs of anti-freeze:
LINK

3) And another little bit:

Only use the amount of antifreeze that your demographic region dictates. Basic chemistry tells us that pure water is the best coolant, period. The specific heat of water is 1.0. This is the common chemistry yardstick that says that it takes 1 BTU to raise 1 pound of water 1° F and is assigned the 1.0 specific heat number. A 50/50 mix of ethylene glycol (the green stuff) has a tested specific heat number of 0.5 and of propylene glycol of 0.3. What this means is that it take twice the amount, in the case of the green stuff (and over three times for the red stuff) of BTUs to raise the same amount of water 1 degree!! This means that pure water will remove double the amount of heat and carry that heat away from the source per unit volume. Now, do the arithmetic and you will find out that the more pure water...the more heat gets taken away! Do not confuse this with the boiling point of the coolant. Pure water will boil at a lower temperature than that of a mix of water and antifreeze, as well as freeze at a higher point. The application of pressure in the system by the system through the normal expansion of water and gas during heating, is the solution to keeping the water from boiling away. A 10 LB pressure on water raises is vapor point to 239° F. I recommend a 25% mix of the green/red stuff to water for boiling protection, lubricating and corrosion resistance. Use only what you need!