Starting a Flooded RX (mainly FD)

[Wayne]

Originally posted by gbutcher
I think you would have a much better chance trying to start it, by a clutch start.  Do you live in an area where you could try this?  I don\'t like doing the tow start - but it may be your only option? depending on where you live.

When last was it running?

Do you know what is actually wrong with it?  if it is Apex seal failure - you may struggle with it.

Let me know.

Hi Glenn,

Thanks for the quick response, i take it by clutch start you mean getting some guys to push and then trying to turn her over? or do you just mean sticking her in second and giving it a go? my car has had a tow start before but the problem is i live in quite a busy area right near Walthamstow Tube and i may need to tow her somewhere quiter to be able to try this! Woodford is only a 2 mile drive and is very quiet.

I started her on the Friday to make sure she would go in the morning for the trip to Portsmouth and she started first time! but come Saturday morning i had no such luck! before that it was 3 weeks when i took her down there and although she was being a bit akward on srartups i had knowhere neat these problems!

The water seals have gone! and i am getting high amounts of pressure in the water system, which in turn is pushing the water out the overflow and then giving me continuous water problem!

Any idea\'s?

[Brett]

One good reason for adding the two stroke is that you can never be entirely sure the oiling system is working properly on an old engine, sometimes the wax pellet is simply defunct, and although you will still have respectable oil pressure, very little oil will be going into the engine at low revs, especially when idling, hence, adding some pre mix 2 stroke oil is usually a good idea if you have an old engine that your trying to coax a few extra miles from.

[Brett]

Heres another useful tip, when rebuilding a rotary, (I\'ve only done 13B\'s) try to modify the oil control arm, it runs from the throttle linkage, down to the base of the engine, by shortening the length of this rod, either by making a newer, slightly shorter one, or by adding some washers to the bottom of it, you can ensure your rotary always runs richer on the oil, which as we know, can only be a good thing! You may need to be careful doing this, sa it will effect your emissions.

[Glenn Butcher]

Originally posted by Wayne
Hi Glenn,

Thanks for the quick response, i take it by clutch start you mean getting some guys to push and then trying to turn her over?...

...Any idea\'s?

I think you should be able to get it started with a clutch start.

In the early hours?

1. Get the car out on the road
2. Ignition on
3. Get someone/people to push you with it in neutral
4. When rolling at a couple of mph
4a. Clutch in
4b. Put it in second gear
4c. Pop the clutch out - if it starts, put the clutch straight in and keep reving the engine (don\'t let it die of course).

If it doesn\'t start - try again, going a bit faster.

If worst comes to worst, you could try a tow start - but it takes a little bit of skill  

[Martiny]

Hi Glen, all

On a 3rd Gen...

Removing the fuel pump relay does *N*O*T* repeat NOT stop the fuel
pumping, and therefore does not help you unflood it. If you have a
look at the wiring diagram, the relay just changes the voltage to the
pump by adding/removing a resistance in the circuit.

I think there is a fuse for the Injection system (EGI?) and if you
could remove THAT, that would stop fuel being injected.

Glen, if you concur, could you edit the very useful procedure at the start of this thread?

Thanks Martin

[BarryB]

Hi all,

to stop the fuel pump on 2nd gens there is a connector under a small access flap on the passangers side of the boot compartment. I have used the method of disconnecting this and cranking the engine until it starts. The engine then revs briefly until the residual fuel is used(unless you\'re REALLY quick to get round the back and plug the connector back together!) The engine should then start again with no problems with the connector back in place

This method has the advantage that it burns off the fuel in the engine, you dont need to take plugs out and it CANT flood when you restart because the fuel system isnt up to pressure immediately.

I even impressed the local Mazda mechanics with this trick when  my car wouldnt start in their workshop.

Barry

[Martiny]

Barry, yep, thats true. Your method does work on a 2nd Gen. Sorry, my post should have said "On a 3rd Gen". I will go back and edit it if I can!

[Glenn Butcher]

Originally posted by Martiny
Hi Glen, all

On a 3rd Gen...

Removing the fuel pump relay does *N*O*T* repeat NOT stop the fuel
pumping, and therefore does not help you unflood it. If you have a
look at the wiring diagram, the relay just changes the voltage to the
pump by adding/removing a resistance in the circuit.

I think there is a fuse for the Injection system (EGI?) and if you
could remove THAT, that would stop fuel being injected.

Glen, if you concur, could you edit the very useful procedure at the start of this thread?

Thanks Martin

Hi Martin!

Thanks for this (sorry I haven\'t replied sooner).  Do you know for sure if the Fuse will do the trick?

I suppose all you really need to do is have the engine turn over without fuel, ignition, etc. - if this fuse (can you specify - pic.?) and I\'ll post it up.

Cheers matey.

[BarryB]

Martin, I didnt mean to sound like I was contradicting or correcting you. What you say is true of 2nd gens too. They have the fuel relay across a resistor also.

2nd gens also have a fuse marked "EGI INJ", sounds more and more like the two generations are very similar in this respect. And removing this will also stop fuel being added to the engine to allow drying out.

My point to was to say how you COULD stop the fuel pump if need be and to add how I thought it might have an advantage over just stopping the injection system.

Cheers
           Barry

[Martiny]

Ah, Barry I think we are in agreement!  I also think that just disconnecting the fuel pump on a 2nd gen is best. This will allow the ignition to fire. The mixture will get leaner and leaner while you\'re cranking it, and it should eventually fire up. This will clean everything out. Then it should start fine again when you reconnect it.

Dont know where we could do this on a 3rg gen, though, so EGI fuse it is!

[Glenn Butcher]

Hi Martin - I updated the original thread (do you want anymore detail on it?).

[Martiny]

I think its fine, Glen, Thanks!

[Robin]

Just to add my two ha`porth to the great debate......

It took a while to defeat the flooding problem, but what has really worked well is -

Hotter plugs
Half a litre of two-stroke every 4th tankfull.
A switch put into the fuel relay. Simple and very effective. I always click the switch and let the engine die before turning ignition off. Starting, I just turn the switch on and start as normal. No problems since I put it in.
Yes, I know I really need a rebuild, but Santa`s late again.

Robin

[Robin]

Further to the fuel relay question - if disconnecting/putting a switch into the relay circuit doesn`t stop the fuel, how come the engine dies 2 seconds after the switch is hit? And why will it only fire (2nd Gen) when the switch is turned on again? I don`t know how useful this set-up is for flooded motors, but it certainly seems to help prevent it......

Robin

[BarryB]

Hi Robin

Sounds like a nifty idea to me.

I dont think anyone was disputing that disconnecting/putting a switch in the circuit would work. Its the fact that REMOVING the relay from its socket wont work \'cos there is a separate resistor elsewhere in parallel with it.

Barry