Diesel

[jetpilot]

well thats the point. I wouldn\'t, I\'d keep them close to where I need them as transportation would cost a shed load. Thus the ability to slap some tools in a van and drive halfway across the country is a luxury.

So going to work is a luxury?

[neil_jdmr]

I personally blame the Eco warrior/tree hugging hippy POS protestors and supporters for the rises in fuel duty and road tax situation. Ever since some flower power vegan freak started spouting about global warming everything thats burns has been taxed through the roof.
 
The comical thing is now that instead of us all boiling to death the same lying money grabbing eco chancers are now being employed yet again by the gullible government for calculating whether these terrible winters are gonna continue.
 
I for one will not believe what pish they spout out as i never have!!!!.
 
Global bloody warming, Pull the other one and have a look outside. Even the bleeding polar bears are wearing NorthFace fleeces.

[dthebuk]

So going to work is a luxury?

No, you\'ve missed the point completely

[jetpilot]

Thus the ability to slap some tools in a van and drive halfway across the country is a luxury

No, its a necessity to earn a living.

Unless you have a viable option, which i would love to hear!

I completely agree however, that my car and my jet ski are luxuries and i have no issue with fuelling these as its the reason i go to work! There is no need for me to drive either but the pleasure they bring is worth the cost, at the moment!

However, and its not just me, some people are reliant for vehicles to earn a living! I do not have the ease of use of working 9 - 5 in a town centre where the most i need is maybe a laptop. So i have no bus routes, train lines but please, i would love to hear your alternatives?

[shaunwil]

Plus not everybody has the luxury of having work actually close to them. The money I earn doesn\'t enable me to live any closer to my place of work. I have to commute

Shaun

[captainbizzaro]

When we do work in London some of the lads we know tube it to work everyday and carry what they can in a rucksack but generally get stuck as there is only so much you can fit in a rucksack and limitations to what you can take on a bus! Therefore we just have to take one for the team and take the van into the city centre and pay up to  Â£5-£6 an hour parking as that van is one of our tools and is indispensable, there is absolutely no way we could operate as a business without depending on them, thats just the way it is. So the only choice we have is to pay up, whether it\'s to Boris, the Government or Westminster Borough council (closely pipping Camden in the Nazi stakes) we just get shafted left and right.

[Hi RX7]

When we do work in London some of the lads we know tube it to work everyday and carry what they can in a rucksack but generally get stuck as there is only so much you can fit in a rucksack and limitations to what you can take on a bus! Therefore we just have to take one for the team and take the van into the city centre and pay up to £5-£6 an hour parking as that van is one of our tools and is indispensable, there is absolutely no way we could operate as a business without depending on them, thats just the way it is. So the only choice we have is to pay up, whether it\'s to Boris, the Government or Westminster Borough council (closely pipping Camden in the Nazi stakes) we just get shafted left and right.

Thats another very good point about people like us who have to use vans etc to transport our equipment and material around the country and London in particular for even more shafting of tradesmen/specialists with the congestion charge which has the effect of blocking all roads around it. The first thing I ask potential clients is is it in the rip off zone sorry I meant Congestion Zone and if they say yes I say sorry I\'m not interested recently I turned down a very nice project on the new visitors centre at the house of expense scandals, the architect could not believe me when I said the journey in and around this site was more trouble than I was prepared to put myself through. There is no answer to these issues because if you put prices up to compensate someone else will undercut you.

[jetpilot]

So in a fuel days, Diesel in my area will go up another 2.6p per litre!

I understand the need for the Vat increase, i understand the need for fuel duty, the money has to come from somewhere.

However, i dont think the system is fair. Why do we pay Vat on the duty, thats just wrong. The duty should be a separate entity irrespective of Vat. I dont think it will be long before there is uproar again and the gov need to act quick and uphold their cap on fuel duty/prices.

Imho it will start stiffeling the country. Prices on literally everything will rise to compensate.

[captainbizzaro]

We\'ve just got to the point now that any job over a couple of days in London isn\'t worth travelling it\'s easier and less stressful/boring to get a good ol\' Premier Inn and be done with it.

[Aceman]

Back to the question in point, the line from the oil companies is that many years back, when building the refineries, Petrol was seen as the fuel of the future leaving Diesel to remain as the fuel of workforce (agriculture etc).

As such, money was pumped into building more Petrol refineries (expected demand to increase greater than Diesel).

With the demand for Diesel cars increasing over the last decades being so much more than ever predicted, there are thus less refineries refining Diesel.

Price is based on supply/demand. Lower supply with higher demand = Diesel cost rising quicker than Petrol.

I\'m not justifying the cost of fuel mind (I\'m kinda against punishing the commuter since this country has moved from local jobs to a global economy requiring people to be moveable) but I agree as a luxury it should be taxed. Not sure how that would work mind with pricing (pay less tax for transport/commuting fuel but more for visiting the parents/going on hols), and hence the government leaves it as is, a luxury tax for a non-necesary means of transport.

[CharlieP]

But how come diesel is cheaper than petrol in many European countries, france a prime example

[jetpilot]

Back to the question in point, the line from the oil companies is that many years back, when building the refineries, Petrol was seen as the fuel of the future leaving Diesel to remain as the fuel of workforce (agriculture etc).

As such, money was pumped into building more Petrol refineries (expected demand to increase greater than Diesel).

With the demand for Diesel cars increasing over the last decades being so much more than ever predicted, there are thus less refineries refining Diesel.

Price is based on supply/demand. Lower supply with higher demand = Diesel cost rising quicker than Petrol.

I\'m not justifying the cost of fuel mind (I\'m kinda against punishing the commuter since this country has moved from local jobs to a global economy requiring people to be moveable) but I agree as a luxury it should be taxed. Not sure how that would work mind with pricing (pay less tax for transport/commuting fuel but more for visiting the parents/going on hols), and hence the government leaves it as is, a luxury tax for a non-necesary means of transport.

Much as i understand the logic behind that, it sounds like government spin for, more people use diesel so lets increase the tax. I seem to remember diesel being much cheaper than petrol but as soon as people started using diesel vehicles, the tax went up. In the same vein, wheres the logic in lpg tax?

I guess this time we cant blame the gov for increased costs!

So guys, where is the answer, where could the gov cut huge costs thus not reliant on heavy duty and tax on fuel, the money has to come from somewhere.

My personal thoughts:
Social Services and Prisons. The programmes i have recently seen about prison life is in my eyes. nothing like the punishment it should be! Far too many luxuries and an easy stay, maybe thats why we have so many re offenders as prison is just to cushy!

[Aceman]

Much as i understand the logic behind that, it sounds like government spin for, more people use diesel so lets increase the tax. I seem to remember diesel being much cheaper than petrol but as soon as people started using diesel vehicles, the tax went up. In the same vein, wheres the logic in lpg tax?

I guess this time we cant blame the gov for increased costs!

So guys, where is the answer, where could the gov cut huge costs thus not reliant on heavy duty and tax on fuel, the money has to come from somewhere.

My personal thoughts:
Social Services and Prisons. The programmes i have recently seen about prison life is in my eyes. nothing like the punishment it should be! Far too many luxuries and an easy stay, maybe thats why we have so many re offenders as prison is just to cushy!

I was only relating to costs sorry, not the tax etc. But with VAT being a percentage of costs, then yes, a rise in Diesel costs larger than a rise in Petrol costs will produce a higher VAT on Diesel.

Historically, Diesel was taxed (higher duty) more than Petrol, but from 1 October 2007, these were equalised. Not sure what 2010 prices are, but 2009 duty was 56.19p for both Diesel and Unleaded. LPG was 27.67p per litre duty (1p rise in April and another in October so it\'s around 58.19p a litre duty now)..

As for where else to crimp money, well, that\'s another discussion.....

[shaunwil]

But if there was a supply issue wouldn\'t petrol stations actually run out of diesel more often ? When was the last time you saw this ?

Shaun

[Aceman]

But if there was a supply issue wouldn\'t petrol stations actually run out of diesel more often ? When was the last time you saw this ?

Shaun

They can produce it, so do. Just costs more to do so.

A simplistic example, if they need to run the refineries longer to produce the same amount as demand, they have increased staff costs (longer staff hours = more overtime), so sell it for more to cover this.

If the demand was not there, they would reduce the running times, so less staff costs as they only need pay normal wage (not time and a half overtime or whatever they pay).

Economies of scale kick in with long term demand, so increase isn\'t as great as it otherwise could be (and can be neglible), but does cost more to produce.

Make sense?

Another example could be UK refineries are not able to meet demand, so they have to import it. Importing costs more (transport costs etc) and so they have to sell it for more to meet this extra cost.

(possibly not great examples, but trying to show simplistic reasons why cost to produce to meet more demand makes product more expensive)