BNR Twin Turbos

[rx7boy]

\'\'The biggest difference is there is no steps in the power curve and you also end up with 80bhp+ extra power with all the same variables\'\'

Sounds like you should get yourself a decent mapper then :rollin

Stylus hit the nail on the head, you can\'t beat the twins for everyday driving, singles are all about power....I\'ve had both, been in both, and much prefer twins...so you don\'t get 4-500 bhp...maybe you\'ll keep your licence a bit longer!

I believe Feed in japan have figured out how to essentially remove the dip and proof is in the dyno graph from one of their ex demo cars here in the uk, I will see if I can upload the graph, but it goes to show that with the right map they can produce a smooth power curve, thats not to say that the twins are better than a single just the fact that the dip is something that can be eliminated.

I currently run my twins in non sequential format due to the fact my rats nest have up the ghost, now I know the manifold for the twins has the flow properties of a athsmatic blowing through a straw and when I get the chance I will be going for a single (money permitting). I am however still shocked when I get in the misses FD who still has the sequential system at how well it pulls off the line and through the rev range. :wiggle

[PGiljevic]

Last post from me on the subject.

Twins
1000rpm to 3000rpm
= Massive rush, smile on face at snappy thrust
3000rpm to 6000rpm
= Moderate power, nothing too earth shattering, car starting to struggle
6000rpm to 8000rpm
= like watching paint dry, pointless near waste of time, and quite painful to experience

Single turbo
1000rpm to 3000rpm
= wtf my car is NA... but its getting crazy near 3k rpm hang on....
3000rpm to 6000rpm
= this thing is a f7cking freight train and its stupidly fast compared to any twins
6000rpm to 8000rpm
= will this acceleration ever stop! this is the way a sports car should be

ANY PERFORMANCE MEASURE
Twins
= slower
Single
= Faster

RELIABILITY MEASURE
Twins
= FAIL
Single
= Livable, cheaper, easier to work on.

Bragging rights and convincing your mates what is best.

Read this thread and many others on various forums, but leave the real world results to people like myself who have tested it and proven it :spank

[stylus350]

Post all the statistics you want. I know which I prefer right now. I have run 600hp per ton daily drives so racing people is sooo yesterday for me. I am a real person who has owned both in the real world using my car for real amounts of time preferably on bendy roads any time I can in all weather.

Most of the time the weather here is cr@p and damp back roads can be attacked in a sequential with great vigour, pace and control much of which is the direct result of the power delivery, low down grunt and throttle response. THAT is what driving is about. ANY single car you bring to me in those (unfortunately usual) weather conditions on roads like that will have a very hard time keeping up indeed.

The added bonus is in real world traffic gaps that appear can taken advantage of instantly.

Forgot to say - at one stage I owned a twin FD and a single FD at the same time. One made me smile, one made me smile a lot more often. I like smiling

[stylus350]

Some interesting comments here:

http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=928210

[Nik da Greek]

I have tuned/modified/ and tested hundreds of RX7\'s ........ the advice comes for free :Thumbs-up

Does the attitude cost extra, then? :confused: Please stop now, you\'re giving me a headache. There\'s really no need to come in here and simply keep shouting at people until they wander off somewhere else or say "yes, OK, OK you\'re right" just to get the noise to stop :rollin

Well done, you\'ve tuned and set up lots of RX-7s and you clearly have formed very strong feelings on what works for you. Your reputation speaks for itself. However, "he who speaks softly speaks loudest" and you probably should learn to stop when the points been made, not ten pages later. I\'m sure if we wanted to be lectured and talked to as if we were cretins we could spend more time on RX-7 club and get the treatment for free instead of paying a membership subscription on here

[PGiljevic]

The added bonus is in real world traffic gaps that appear can taken advantage of instantly.

My T04Z is instant and far quicker than any twins car in any real world application. It will send it turbine from 5000rpm to 100,000rpm much quicker than any twins set up............. how do I know? I actually measure it :3gears-rh not guess it or post up subjective feelings. By the time your flapper valves and inefficient solenoids switch and turn on the second turbo I am many car lengths ahead and you would have had a head on with a lorry :rollin

Remember "appropriate sized single" fit the right one and you will have most of what the unreliable twins will give and a whole lot more.

Sounds like you never had a decent single set up?

Check my site out for what works (no made up statistics there mate) once you get behind the wheel of a well prepared car you will throw the twins in the bin where they belong :rollin

Happy for you to take out the emotion and show me ANY in gear acceleration figures from your "super responsive twins set up" and I will smash them with my "unresponsive T04Z" :Hammer

From closed throttle to gear change to transient boost response any rpm south of 3000rpm you will loose by a massive margin. And if you respond telling me you over take at 3000rpm then you are delusional :Hammer

[BlitzBoy]

My only post on this subject on the subject :p

Single Big turbo Half Bridge Port

1000rpm to 3000rpm
= wtf my car is idling... Fduk me its freakin quick to 3K with a slight press of the loud pedal....

3000rpm to 6000rpm
= OMG the boost has just kicked in, I think my neck is going to snap

6000rpm to 9200rpm
= will this warp drive ever stop! I feel sick this is what a super car should be :flamed

[Nik da Greek]

Lol. How often do you drive it though Blitzen?

[PGiljevic]

Does the attitude cost extra, then? :confused: Please stop now, you\'re giving me a headache. There\'s really no need to come in here and simply keep shouting at people until they wander off somewhere else or say "yes, OK, OK you\'re right" just to get the noise to stop :rollin

Well done, you\'ve tuned and set up lots of RX-7s and you clearly have formed very strong feelings on what works for you. Your reputation speaks for itself. However, "he who speaks softly speaks loudest" and you probably should learn to stop when the points been made, not ten pages later. I\'m sure if we wanted to be lectured and talked to as if we were cretins we could spend more time on RX-7 club and get the treatment for free instead of paying a membership subscription on here

Forums sh&t me off, they mostly have opinions from people with no real testing of any credit to back them up. I spend allot of my own money and time to share my testing and experience with people, I take offense to people saying that my findings are either skewed or statistics to be disregarded and that they based of typed text are to be more believed due to me who has spent countless hours working and sharing information is wrong in what I have decided to post up.

That is my position, the "attitude" is something you read into my posts cause you see it from your side. I see from my side people who have never done any proper tests nor defined in engineering terms what is a very complex subject.

Instead on the internet you get subjective opinion along with too many unknown variables and lets face it shout downs of certain positions based on who is more proud of their own set up and money they have spent along with their justifications to back it up. I don\'t care for any of that and you can read that as you wish, I only care about what works, how and why and if it can be replicated and measured by others.

I probably loved twins more than anyone here many times over, hence I tested and trialed them all myself and over many customers, took me a long time to acknowledge single turbos are far superior and that twins are only good at irrelevant things that are never used by most in sports cars 1000rpm to 3000rpm zone................

[BlitzBoy]

Lol. How often do you drive it though Blitzen?

My car is not posessed therefore more times then you in last 5 years :cheers hahaha

[Nik da Greek]

Forums sh&t me off, they mostly have opinions from people with no real testing of any credit to back them up. I spend allot of my own money and time to share my testing and experience with people, I take offense to people saying that my findings are either skewed or statistics to be disregarded and that they based of typed text are to be more believed due to me who has spent countless hours working and sharing information is wrong in what I have decided to post up.

That is my position, the "attitude" is something you read into my posts cause you see it from your side. I see from my side people who have never done any proper tests nor defined in engineering terms what is a very complex subject.

Instead on the internet you get subjective opinion along with too many unknown variables and lets face it shout downs of certain positions based on who is more proud of their own set up and money they have spent along with their justifications to back it up. I don\'t care for any of that and you can read that as you wish, I only care about what works, how and why and if it can be replicated and measured by others.

I probably loved twins more than anyone here many times over, hence I tested and trialed them all myself and over many customers, took me a long time to acknowledge single turbos are far superior and that twins are only good at irrelevant things that are never used by most in sports cars 1000rpm to 3000rpm zone................

All this may well be the case, but if you do this with slightly more humility and sympathy towards other people\'s feelings and opinions maybe you\'d get listened to more. I wouldn\'t presume to judge your breadth of knowledge and experience but you\'re frankly boring me to tears and I haven\'t felt the need to be lectured quite so intensely since I left school. You\'re extremely abrupt and presumptive in your manner and if you think people want to be talked to like that and that you\'re going to succeed in educating them into your awesome rotary gospel by browbeating them into submission then I fear you\'re sorely mistaken. I expect most people stopped reading this thread several posts ago.

My car is not posessed therefore more times then you in last 5 years :cheers hahaha

That\'s a low blow, Mark:rollin

[PGiljevic]

One on right is more responsive and better 3000rpm onwards :Giggle :yes :WaveBye Tested both back to back on same day for what its worth, and got a third party to drive both cars and he admitted the T04Z was a "response machine" much more mid range power and top end was a no comparison *advantage T04Z*

RF420 set to 20 psi
T04Z set to 17psi

[PGiljevic]

In my tests:

Both std 13B-REW\'s
Both Blitz SBC I color boost control
Both same SMB exhaust systems
Both HKS DLI ign
Both tuned the same
Both same test location

I drove the twins car on track and had to rape it to get a lap time of what I would get out of a single turbo car (narrow power band) poor low end power, very poor top end power. And the turbo\'s broke :Thumbsup!

If people want the "reverse park 15psi boost" then stay twins, if you want a real car go single, it will be faster, much more fun, quicker in every situation in my experience and cost you much less :Typing

[CharlieP]

Not really childish remarks, more of a light-hearted nudge....

My car was mapped on the road, and only went on the Dyno out of interest, which is when I saw the smooth power curve, I\'ve lost it now, like I lose most things.

I\'m just saying, a great tuner can make the world of difference to a car, which few people realise and actually get to experience

I don\'t think I know an awful lot about rotaries and cars (like many forum people)...but willing to learn and have an open mind but unfortunately I agree with Nik....you may have much experience and knowledge, but the way you put it across makes me less willing to listen.

[stylus350]

Mr Rice Racing I have respect for your achievements but I don\'t think you are very good at listening.

I have stated that my opinions are for a genuinely regularly used car and it\'s this fact that is absolutely key to what I am saying.

I do 15 - 20k miles a year in all weather. 1 - 4000 rpm is KING. In fact I\'ve never been out in a single car that genuinley pushes you back in the seat before 4k. Even if you have it makes no difference at all because a 1000rpm power band is useless.

Twice a day on the school run fighting for the last space near the kids schools (two boys different schools 6miles appart). Picking them both up on the day of their swimming lessons and having ten minutes to get them to the baths etc....

It\'s in these situations (most of road driving let\'s face it) that my 1 - 4k prm pull makes my life great. I can make swift progress using that power band and it\'s a pleasure. I don\'t want to be thrashing the car because you look like a TW4T ragging your car at these times of day. I can make haste without making a load of noise and unwanted attention coming across like some racing driver wannabe. I am still enjoying myself in my sports car. It\'s a sports car with bottom end grunt but it\'s still a sports car. My kids love the feel of the pull too so that\'s a massive bonus for me.

But here\'s the thing - when the traffic clears a bit to reveal an interesting bit of road, when I spy an empty unguarded trading estate or any time and every time there is a chance to stretch the engine and have some more fun I never think "I wish I was in the FD" because I\'m always in the FD.