Moto Gp 2010

clive · April 12, 2010, 01:58:52 PM

Quote from: Nik da Greek;686657Oooh, you know how to press my buttons, Clive :Giggle.

MotoGP has always been about buying the championship,

Nah, Nicky Hayden would have given every penny he had, plus an arm and a leg to have not scrabbled about at the back last year :WaveBye:D

jetpilot · April 12, 2010, 02:04:22 PM

Quote from: Kriss;686624Stoner:"Who is behind me?"
Ducati team:"Dovizioso...Dovizioso...Dovizioso...Rossi!"
And Stoner fell...

Which race are you talking about, it was Pedrosa behind Stoner first up buddy :rollin

And going against popular opinion on this thread i was gutted to see Stoner come off because i think he is the only one who can consistently push Rossi for the title and to be fair i am bored of seeing Rossi win year in and out! Appreciated there will be other winners, Lorenzo, Pedrosa and by the looks of things maybe Hayden (good to see up the sharp end again) and Spies. I dont think for one minute Stoner was worried about Rossi, he knew he had the pace to beat him i just think he was doing a Rossi esque trying to break the pack and just pushed it too much in his bid to do just this.

Lets hope for a good year of close fought races like this one anyone and quite happy to have a bet with anyone who is jumping on the Rossi bandwagon again :Yawn:Yawn:Yawn:Yawn:Yawn

Kriss · April 12, 2010, 02:07:55 PM

Yes, sorry, my fault... was Pedrosa indeed...

Yes, Stoner was not worried about Rossi... and that is his fault every year!!! You always had to be worried about Valentino, because he can race like anybody else...

I think this would be another wonderfull year of battles but... Rossi will win again!!!

jetpilot · April 12, 2010, 02:29:50 PM

Quote from: Kriss;686712Yes, sorry, my fault... was Pedrosa indeed...

Yes, Stoner was not worried about Rossi... and that is his fault every year!!! You always had to be worried about Valentino, because he can race like anybody else...

I think this would be another wonderfull year of battles but... Rossi will win again!!!

Is that every year including the one he won the championship by some 125 points :Giggle

Besides the negative opinions re Stoners personality, it seems everyone thinks he is just a wanna be. I have never seen Rossi come out of the pit garage, do 4-5 laps, usually putting it on pole, then go back have a rest for 30 minutes till the rest catch up, then go out, do a few more laps and usually take pole again. The boys a legendary rider and this is on a bike no one else can ride until this year and by all accounts its because they have knocked 20 hp off and improved the torque.

Write him off at your peril, anyone want to give me odds for Stoner to win :wiggle

Nik da Greek · April 12, 2010, 11:22:02 PM

No-ones writing Stoner off, Mr Pilot. His talent isn\'t in question, but he is still an unlikeable little whinger! Likewise, when I praise Rossi\'s talent that\'s in no way meant to imply I idolise him, quite the reverse. I think he has a very clever PR steamroller pushing him along, but tbh I\'ve always found his pranks and capers rather too contrived and immature to cause me too much hilarity. Back in the day when he was dressing up as Robin Hood on the 125 podium he may have been excused on the grounds of being like 17 years old, but it\'s less endearing and zany when a 30-year old feels the need to invent a new nickname for himself every season. I gues when you\'re the most talented rider in the world by some margin you can get away with behaving like an utter twot

Hi RX7 · April 13, 2010, 07:43:14 AM

Quote from: Nik da Greek;686887No-ones writing Stoner off, Mr Pilot. His talent isn\'t in question, but he is still an unlikeable little whinger! Likewise, when I praise Rossi\'s talent that\'s in no way meant to imply I idolise him, quite the reverse. I think he has a very clever PR steamroller pushing him along, but tbh I\'ve always found his pranks and capers rather too contrived and immature to cause me too much hilarity. Back in the day when he was dressing up as Robin Hood on the 125 podium he may have been excused on the grounds of being like 17 years old, but it\'s less endearing and zany when a 30-year old feels the need to invent a new nickname for himself every season. I gues when you\'re the most talented rider in the world by some margin you can get away with behaving like an utter twot

I agree with you there, I\'ve watched him since his 125 days and there is no doubt of his talent but I find the pranks a bit silly.

jetpilot · April 13, 2010, 12:56:36 PM

Well i hope for any other than Rossi for the title, not because i dont like him or think he isnt the best but as mentioned i think the sport (or any sport) gets stale when one rider or team (Man U) keeps winning. I like to watch to see if they can be beaten and the racing involved in that effect. So, barring Rossi\'s talent/skill i think the only other rider out there who "could" mount a consistent challenge is Stoner, plus i do think he is an awesome talent, i know its old hat but no one else has made that Ducati work, would actually love to see Rossi on it, now that would stop all the critics and i dont mean from here.

So to Toseland, interesting, no doubting his talent but to be fair he just didnt cut it in Moto GP as with many other WSB champs who have gone to that pasture. Spies on the same bike, first race ended up higher than Toseland ever. However, i admire Toseland for being the one British WSB winner to brave the big arena, or shall we say, the pinnacle of bike racing. Was all too easy for Foggy and Hodgson to stay around in WSB on bar far the best bikes and know they most likely had a good percentage chance of re claiming the title and when they didnt win, they just resorted to the kind of whinging that Stoner is accused of, it was the brakes, the tyres went off, did anyone notice whenever Foggy wasnt winning he was always looking down at the bike, almost like he was ready to make an excuse.

So this year we have a fit Stoner, i cant quite imagine trying to ride one of those things fully fit let alone throwing up in your helmet mid race or near on fainting when you get off because you have some illness. Imho it took a brave decision to take a break last year, he is a young lad and the pressure on anyone that age to compete at that standard is admirable.

Dan Norton · April 13, 2010, 06:12:00 PM

I\'ll just add, Stoner WAS worried about Rossi, hence him wanting to get to the front of the pack as quick as possible to try and break away.

If anyone watched qualifying (like i did), Stoner did his usual trick of 4-5laps, then back in until the last 10mins.
He went and did a 1.55.007 lap....half a second faster than Rossi.
Stoner then proceeded back to the pits.

Rossi, came straight back out....was 0.300 seconds FASTER for the first 3 sectors, and then flucked up the final sector to go 0.300 seconds behind.

Stoner had seen this information and thought "bugger...i need t get in front quick tomorrow".

Also, if Stoner was that good, then why didnt he win on argubaly the best bikeof the 2006 season, the RC211V

jetpilot · April 13, 2010, 06:30:17 PM

Quote from: Dan Norton;687067I\'ll just add, Stoner WAS worried about Rossi, hence him wanting to get to the front of the pack as quick as possible to try and break away.

If anyone watched qualifying (like i did), Stoner did his usual trick of 4-5laps, then back in until the last 10mins.
He went and did a 1.55.007 lap....half a second faster than Rossi.
Stoner then proceeded back to the pits.

Rossi, came straight back out....was 0.300 seconds FASTER for the first 3 sectors, and then flucked up the final sector to go 0.300 seconds behind.

Stoner had seen this information and thought "bugger...i need t get in front quick tomorrow".

Also, if Stoner was that good, then why didnt he win on argubaly the best bikeof the 2006 season, the RC211V

I think you confuse worried with wanting to make a break as Rossi does, he was merely doing what he thought he should, he breezed past Rossi buddy, when Rossi couldnt get past Pedrosa, hence being 1.5 seconds quicker than anyone on the circuit the previous lap, he just pushed too hard in his bid to gap Rossi, dont think there was any worry involved, but that is circumspect as neither of us are Stoner!

Yes, love watching the qualifying but wouldnt call it a trick, he does it every qualifying, he is just on the pace from the money where as the rest play catch up!

Your right he did come back out, his normal style, he goes quick from lap 1 and your right again, sort of, Rossi wasnt ....ing up the final sector, he just wasnt as quick through it, as he proved through his remaining laps and during the race, most of the guys were closing in by the end of the straight and then Rossi would pull a gap as he was quickest in the first sector. its about three sectors not one.

Show me one one other rider who has done the same on the un rideable Duke, he his good, he won the championship by 125 points, not even Rossi has done that, what you thinking, the rest of the pack just had an off season, lets get real, the boy has bucket loads of talent. Maybe it was his age, who knows, but you really cant question his talent, thats just ignorant!

Dan Norton · April 13, 2010, 09:21:26 PM

Im not convinced one bit.

Like i said, he had one of the best bikes 2006 and didnt win.
Yes he\'s found a bike he can win on, and stuck with it....if he had the balls, he would jack it in now and go and ride for Honda again.

I think you are forgetting that Rossi won the championship on 3 different bikes in successive years.
Rossi won the championship on the 500cc 2 stroke...then immediately on the RC211, and then switched to a completely diferent manufacturer and won outright once again....now thats talent!

jetpilot · April 13, 2010, 09:58:11 PM

Could you please point me in the direction where i said Rossi hasnt got talent?

?? please listen if your going to respond!

Balls would be Rossi going to Ducati, Yamaha and Honda have always won titles in Moto Gp, never a low budget Italian manufacturer (until Stoner and his 125 point lead, lol), anyway, if your sooooo not convinced one bit, as you say, why dont you give me odds on Stoner winning this year?

Nik da Greek · April 13, 2010, 10:48:21 PM

I think you two should play nice. :rollin

I think Stoner won\'t beat Rossi this year because he\'s a confidence rider and he doesn\'t have the tower of iron will and self-belief Rossi has to ignore/overcome/ride around the machinery if it isn\'t giving him the confidence to push. The year he won the title it just all clicked for him and it clearly hasn\'t done yet.

Guys, Kenny Roberts Jr nuked the championship in the year the power vaccuum left by Doohan getting crocked, but the best rider in the world :Nono!? He was never that by a long way, it all just fell into place for him at the right time when everyone else was on the back foot. I feel there was a large element of that good fortune in Stoner\'s championship year, though he\'s clearly on a much much higher plane of talent to KRJR ever was.

Ben\'s Pies is beating Toseland\'s results on the "same bike" for the very simple reason he\'s almost certainly a far better rider. No-one makes Mladin look silly for three years without "knowing some sh!t" as the Yanks would say. I think he will go on to be truly great, but whether the bike can stay with him is another thing. At the moment he\'s on a mega high having decimated all in WSB. and riding on confidence. When the inferior traction control package on his bike fires him into orbit a couple of times he may find he slows down a bit.....

jinx · April 14, 2010, 11:31:51 AM

Is traction control in Moto GP generically inferior to the systems used in WSB or is this a problem specific to the bike you are talking about?

As for the WSB riders not \'graduating\' to Moto GP - I think there are any number of professional racers (cars too) who have stayed in \'lower\' formulas in order to make a better living or keep winning. History books are full of people who jumped too early or too late and wound up with the wrong equipment to let them shine.

These days so many racers have been groomed from an early age by eager parents, their careers directed and carefully financed, the number of seats available to racers without serious funding is proportionally fewer. It means relatively unknown \'stars of tomorrow\' already have a promotions manager who handles the t-shirt sales! Talent has always needed help but it does seem as though in every level of motorsport the sums are getting bigger and traditional \'angels\' are harder to find.

jetpilot · April 14, 2010, 11:41:01 AM

Quote from: Nik da Greek;687172I think you two should play nice. :rollin

You know me buddy, i like a good debate, especially on subjects i have a passion for. Just dont appreciate being miss quoted or any of my comments taken out of context.

Rossi is probably one, if not the most talented riders ever, there is no denying that, not that i ever have!

But to "not be convinced one bit" about Stoners talent is just plain naive! He has bucket loads, its plain to see and undeniable :Laugh

Nik da Greek · April 14, 2010, 12:24:59 PM

Yeah, I know Mr Pilot, we all love a good argument, errrr debate. FWIW don\'t think Dan was trying to deliberately misquote or misrepresent you, just differing opinions is all.

Andrew, no the MotoGP traction control is at a massively higher level than in WSB, when I said that Spies had an inferior package I meant respective to the other Yamahas in the same series. Lorenzo\'s and Rossi\'s bikes are the full works factory machines with the budgets to match, and Edwards\' and Spies\' bikes.....aren\'t. Despite what Tech Trois may say, they\'re in a different league in budget and therefore the electronics packages they can field. It\'ll start to tell as the season wears on I think and the works teams leap ahead with developement the second string teams simply can\'t afford.

I agree wholeheartedly about riders jumping too soon to MotoGp and not having the proper foundation. Rossi was riding from the age of four, it\'s always going to be hard to combat that sort of advantage. If you don\'t have a full factory machine in MotoGP you may as well not turn up at all because not only will you not win, you\'ll be lucky to finish higher than seventh and after a season of underachieving on a hopelessly outclassed machine no-one will sponsor you for the price of your socks let alone a full season\'s racing.

This is the perennial curse of Brits in MotoGP, leaving aside arguments of talent for a moment, they take a ride because they think they have to be in the series, it\'s the ultimate. Then they realise the gulf between works and second-string machinery, maybe hurt themselves trying to override an uncompetitive machine, get dropped and have to spend three or four years running back to "lesser" championships to build their tattered reputation back up. The list of such casualties is endless......Rymer, Hodgson, Emmet, Toseland, Walker, Haslam, etc etc

Simple economics defines who gets the best seats just as much as talent or achievement. Spain and the USA are massive markets for the manufacturers and sponsors, the UK a tiny one. Who gets the works bikes?.....The manufacturers bleat about trying to reduce costs and make racing more competitive, yet as I say they ignore the fact that Traction Control and electronics are the most expensive single aspect of the racing, and it\'s utterly uncontrolled by any rules. Like I keep banging on about, the racing may occaisionally be good to watch, but that\'s an inconsequential side effect, it\'s been a looooooooong time since it was about anything remotely like "sport"