Why you MUST Pre-Mix.

[AMH]

I thought Forums are for Advice and to hopefully to learn something.

You\'re not offering advise you are preaching. Forums are also for discussion but you are not reading other peoples posts properly let alone taking on board what they are saying.

With RESPECT it is obvious you do not like it, and you can Stick your head in the sand..."you have never heard of an engine failure for what reason" you really do not know what you are talking about do you.

With respect did I ever say I didn\'t like it? How can you challenge what I have been told and what I know? And you\'re right I don\'t have a clue what you are talking about but I never said I did.

Your naivety concerning Dealers is astounding, they will not admit to anything.

Because I trust a dealer that I have been with for 15 years and who has never let me down and has gone out their way to provide excellent service I\'m naive?

So in your "expert" opinion what is happening to the RX-8 engine that have been replaced in the UK, why, OH that is correct the dealer says it is an Owners fault don\'t they. forgot to add oil..how gullible are you.

I have never once claimed to be an expert on anything but yes I do believe what my dealer has told me. I never said people forget to add oil - I know of at least two people who brought RX-8s without having a clue what a rotary engine is. How would they know they need to check the oil so often?

I will say this for the third and last time. I have not once said that what you are proposing isn\'t correct or valid but if you think I am going to go against the advise of my dealer and do something that some rather rude Australian has advised me on an internet forum that you really must think I\'m stupid! And you haven\'t even waited for me to actually ask my dealer!

[RX-8888]

I see, your monitoring of your oil level usage (which is probably no more accurate than seeing the dip-stick level reduce every x000 miles and adding half a litre?) overrides all of the R&D that Mazda have carried out, statistics and evidence they\'ve collected etc., re-designing, re-tooling all at great expense, and obviously shouldn\'t have bothered with because they\'ve quite simply got it wrong (again!) :2Confused


But it\'s NOT a two-stroke! It\'s also not a V8, Diesel etc., which all have different design and lubrication requirements. (Hint the principal is similar to two-stroke, the design boundaries and execution are rather different!)
Which is why they provide Oil metering in the first place, rather than leaving it out and depending on a more inaccurate method of putting an additive into the fuel mix, at some difficult to judge ratio (and changing in your case!)


I do, I also don\'t try to preach my religion, whatever it may be, to others through supposition.


Wow, that\'s a nice, consistent rate. Out of how many sales?


Did they, to you? They were probably correct, given the number in existence?


Since then there have been UK owners who have not had failures (I being one).

(What were you trying to say - UK owners have ONLY had failures in the past year? That\'s incorrect too.)


Says who? All of them do more mileage than me?


I haven\'t said it before, but Mazda would NEVER tell you to add sugar to your fuel... I wonder why...


Please, help me -- seriously, why?

(IMO, if there were a real benefit, it would most definitely be in Mazda\'s interest to say so, and insist on the additives; there\'d be a huge cost benefit with not having to cover engine replacements under warranty / good-will, and they\'d also turn the sales of the additive into a cash-cow, like their oil
Communicating the fact to their existing owners, many of whom are completely ignorant to the requirement of topping up oil at all, [the biggest cause of engine failures according to the dealers we\'ve talked to here in the UK])


Oh, so, now we\'re all to treat our motors as racing cars now, are we? That also means I definintely need to uprate my suspension, zorst, tyres, roll-cage, remove excessive weight etc. etc, because ALL (well, most) will do that too?
Different context, mate; similar things are done to racing pot engines too (including dry-sumping, and oil metering, ironically!)


Figures of one dealer are nothing to go on -- perhaps they have a lot of ignorant buyers?


No doubt -- it makes sense to bring rebuilding onto shore as market forces will dictate there will be more engines to rebuild through time, and Mazda make the kits and skills available to be able to do so. Much cheaper than shipping them back to Japan, and much \'greener\' to be seen to \'recycle\' than to dump? I\'d be surprised if a similar pattern was not followed in early history of previous generation engines?

I simply find your proposal illogical, and you fail to cite any real facts which would convince me otherwise (and that convincing, BTW, would actually need to come from Mazda UK, not yourself).

You cite that because I\'ve done >50K miles I\'m doomed because I didn\'t use pre-mix, and there\'s no point in starting now, I\'m already doomed. Where\'s the facts to back that up? Why an arbitrary number? Why not 51K, 60K, 55,555.5 miles?

You proposed that because YOU put an additive in, we all MUST? Why?

You cite this is because Mazda have incorrectly designed the oil metering; yet they\'ve addressed this in the R3 and you STILL insist on pre-mix. Why?

etc. etc. etc.

If you can\'t comprehend my reason for adding pre-mix, I am not going to spell it out to you again...

As I said to you and you failed to answer this one, why did Mazda comprehensively change the MOP on Series 2 engines?, by adding 2 Electromagnetic Metering Oil Pumps instead of One mechanical, and the two extra oil nozzles, a brand new Oil Pump set up at a higher oil pressure, increase the size of the oil filter, WHY.?

Simply because the Series I system is inadequate.

The ratio or percentage of RX-8 sales to population is in fact very similar in the US, Australia and the UK. So the ratio to "Faults\' is also similar.

BTW, it is a fact that drivers in the US drive greater distances than those in the UK, like Australian drive greater distances than those in the UK, after all we have a cattle station that are larger than the total size of UK.

If you have RX-8 owners that have done more than 150,000 miles on their original motor I would like to see them post than info here, rather than someone else. It would be a new world record.

You are very lucky if you get over 100,000 miles...very lucky.

[RX-8888]

You\'re not offering advise you are preaching. Forums are also for discussion but you are not reading other peoples posts properly let alone taking on board what they are saying.

 With respect did I ever say I didn\'t like it? How can you challenge what I have been told and what I know? And you\'re right I don\'t have a clue what you are talking about but I never said I did.

 Because I trust a dealer that I have been with for 15 years and who has never let me down and has gone out their way to provide excellent service I\'m naive?

 I have never once claimed to be an expert on anything but yes I do believe what my dealer has told me. I never said people forget to add oil - I know of at least two people who brought RX-8s without having a clue what a rotary engine is. How would they know they need to check the oil so often?

I will say this for the third and last time. I have not once said that what you are proposing isn\'t correct or valid but if you think I am going to go against the advise of my dealer and do something that some rather rude Australian has advised me on an internet forum that you really must think I\'m stupid! And you haven\'t even waited for me to actually ask my dealer!

Hey, hang on , if anyone is rude....look at yourself, where have I not listened to what others have had to say...

If the cap fits wear it...and if that offends you then I apologise.

[RX-8888]

I think everyone needs to chill out....I mean it was originally intended to give people advice, and recommendation!!
 
That said....maybe it was said with a bit too much \'I know all\' attitude

Precisely, I know all attitude now is it....what a laugh...

If others do not wish to listed that is fine by me..

I have presented facts from people who either work at Mazda, work on Mazda\'s, from 2009 Mazda Workshop Manuals that I own...if that is a know all then so be it.

[AMH]

hey guys take it easy lol

Quite right Blitz - got a bit aggrivated for a min there. Been ages since I\'ve been involved in a forum scrap and I can\'t believe it\'s in a technical thread! :Giggle

Will Premix help the old 8s reliability Probably but if your engine does fail the dealers will replace the engine anyway.

If your dealer tells you to do follow guidlines but your engine still fails, your dealer will replace if for you, so why worry about adding premix??

Absolutley my point. There is also the issue that I post up on here that I think it\'s a great idea and I\'m going to start doing it straight away - and then I have a problem. Mazda or my dealer could turn around and say they\'re not going to help me out as I took advise from some random bloke I\'ve never even met!

[BlitzBoy]

Sure it is possibly, I have not heard of any RX-8 getting over 125K, I think they would be running pretty poorly at that mileage, to say they have a "number" of them over 150K seems unusual. That is over 260,000 KMS.

They are Talking Miles not Kilometers.?

Yep Miles I believe.
Well this all very interesting, im glad Mazda have went for the three nozzled design on the housing at last and hope it will be in the 16x as well.

Personally I have personally seen a couple of RX8 done over 100K miles not 150K
They seemed to run ok, which is good going for a Rotary sports coupe methinks

[RX-8888]

Sorry but I can\'t help that either but it is a very defeatist attitude to just say it\'s too late. I\'m not just giving up on a car I love that easy. We can\'t all afford luxury R3\'s even if we were worthy enough to get them in the UK.

You said yourself that you have known an RX8 run to 120,000 miles. How did the owner get this to run 70,000 miles with an apparently broken engine?

That is the information us 50k+ers need to know.

Hang on mate, I never said that your or anyones engine is BROKEN, at around 50,000 miles the Apex Seals are already worn to a very slightly concave face, you can not rectify that with pre-mix, it will help though.
Philip started pre-mixing a few years back, his engine damage after pulling apart was worn apex seals , but a broken side seal that damaged rotor housings.

By all means if you want to pre-mix...this is after all the reason for my thread here, but you wont rectify something that is already worn irregularly.
What pre-mixing will also do is help to lubricate all the areas where the MOP will not do.

[RX-8888]

Yep Miles I believe.
Well this all very interesting, im glad Mazda have went for the three nozzled design on the housing at last and hope it will be in the 16x as well.

Personally I have personally seen a couple of RX8 done over 100K miles not 150K
They seemed to run ok, which is good going for a Rotary sports coupe methinks

Yes, the 3 nozzle and EMOP and OIL pump is the same that will be on the new 16X..if we see it...I hope so, but I just don\'t know with the world economy etc.
Don\'t know how you guys will go in the UK, rotary sales are not good there and your new Road tax is a killer.

[AshRX]

Take a look in Auto Trader, eBay, PistonHeads etc there are quite a few 8\'s with over 100k miles as they are company cars and they are still running sweet as a nut.

Sorry but im with Ann and Mark on this. If Mazda have said my car is fine and all serviced correctly and it does go I know all I will have to pay is the labour of an engine replacement.......but as said my dealer has never had an engine back in 6 years of selling RX8\'s

[RX-8888]

27 engines replaced in rx8oc

[AshRX]

out of how many sold?

rx8oc isnt just UK Ash

[nicktyler]

There are 27 in the RX8OC but that is still a small % even with the condensed soup affect. Also They are not all due to lack of pre-mix and irregularly worn apex seals.

Nothing is perfect and I\'m sure a Mazda dealer would agree.

[RX-8888]

Take a look in Auto Trader, eBay, PistonHeads etc there are quite a few 8\'s with over 100k miles as they are company cars and they are still running sweet as a nut.

Sorry but im with Ann and Mark on this. If Mazda have said my car is fine and all serviced correctly and it does go I know all I will have to pay is the labour of an engine replacement.......but as said my dealer has never had an engine back in 6 years of selling RX8\'s

Yes, as I posted back I have a friend in South Africa who has a 2004 Black 8 done 207,000 KM (124k Miles), he is a rep on the road all the time, as we know rotaries thrive on being used all the time.

His car started to get harder to start at around 200K, ran fine once started but got worse quickly, ended up it busted a side seal.
He is having it Ported and should be back on the road today.

Mazda are no longer selling RX-8 in South Africa as they don\'t sell.

[RX-8888]

There are 27 in the RX8OC but that is still a small % even with the condensed soup affect. Also They are not all due to lack of pre-mix and irregularly worn apex seals.

Nothing is perfect and I\'m sure a Mazda dealer would agree.

How do you get poor compressions?
A busted seal?

[RX-8888]

out of how many sold?

rx8oc isnt just UK Ash

I guess not, but "dare" I say most of them look to be.

Just like most car owners don\'t participate in Forums..