A/F Meter

[Iwan]

hi all,

couse all dyno runs are very expansive and are not present on every location, it\'s diffecult to proparly tune you car.

As all know, Rotary\'s dont like to run lean, but this happens, when you remove your catalyst, or putting an aftermarket exhaust system or using performace suction kit, like Blitz, Apexi, HKS.

To prevent a damage to the engine, wich can be coused by runing lean, you need a programmable ECU like Apexi PFC. But thats not all you need, couse you have to set up the ECU proparly, but how to do, without a dyno ?

So I have checked some stuff wich is avaliable to buy at reasonable price and would like to ask if anyboby has experience using it.

They is a Greddy A/F waring Meter avaliable, wich is connected to Lambda-sensor (o2 Sensor), but how accurate does it show the mx?
They is also Apexi AFC avaliable, wich should be able to show the A/F ratio, so how does this perform?
Or do you have the option to Apexi PFC to display and to set up the A/F ratio like to increase the injector- duty cycle, or is there another option to set up the A/F ratio without spending hours on dyno or a fortune?

Any advice is much appreciated.

Thanks and REgards
Iwan

[iaint]

Others will be able to answer with greater detail but the stock O2 sensor is not accurate enough - one needs a wideband O2 sensor to correctly map the car.  Unfortunately these basties are quite pricey.

Iain

[Fish]

Iwan, to tune properly you need a wideband O2 sensor as Iain has said.

The stock sensor (if in good working order) will be ok for cruise/off boost mapping, but not that good for on boost mapping.

The current favorites for wideband kits are the techedge and the innovative motorsports kit. Dont forget that you will need either the hand controller or datalogit for the Apexi. Datalogit will give you more options to play with.

I have the techedge and think it is well worth the money.

As for tuning without a rolling road, well there is another way, but not legal so I am not telling you to do it.

I used to map on the M1 (motorway) in the early hours of the morning, when no other trffic was about. But all you really need is a long straight road without cars about.

Fish

[Iwan]

cheers all,

a long straight road is no problem to us, German Autobahn makes some things possible

I agree to all about the stock O2 sensor, have to check where to get the wideband unit. Fish, do you have URL for me where I can get the techedge unit?

I have chacked some option of the datalogit software have to wait for my PFC arriving to to check the software version for interoperability with Datalogit software. I have ordered a commander as well, so will try to set up with commander first.
I think it\'s not usual to share PFC maps, couse some guys have spend lots of money for dyno or other tools, but does anybody know, where I can find some sample maps, or will share his map with me? I think, starting to study the map first, should help to understand the way of operation much better.

Thanks and REgards
Iwan

[Fish]

Iwan, the link for the techedge site is either //www.techedge.com.au or //www.wbo2.com

As for maps, you can find some here.

Fish

[bill shurvinton]

Iwan,

With the innovate (//www.tuneyourengine.com) you do not necessarily need a datalogit, as it has a built in memory and some very nice analysis software. You can do similar with the techedge if you have a palm pilot. The weak dollar makes the innovate very good value, if the form factor is acceptable ( the techedge is more suitable for permanent vehicle mounting.

I\'m at the tail end of negotiating some discounts for both products so let me know if you are interested.

Bill

[Iwan]

Hi Bill,

sounds very good, I like the analysis software, but dont like to install the second O2 sensor. But I think I have no other choice as to do so.

I have found another system, wich sound very good to me to, but it costs more than twice of the LM-1.  More about the other system: http://www.mwignitions.com/

How many time do I have, till you order Bill ? Please let me know, couse I will definitely go for one of this systems.

Thanks and REgards
Iwan

[bill shurvinton]

both of the systems I have experience with have a simulated narrowband output, so that you do not have to have a second sensor. However the bosch sensors that are the only ones readily available these days are sensitive to high temperature, which is cured either by moving them further down the exhaust, or fitting a thicker bung (i.e. with a turbo you \'may\' need to mod things anyway).

I\'ll be putting in an order before the end of this month, but should be ordering on a regular basis this year anyway.

Bill

[Iwan]

Bill,

LM-1 looks better to me, than the M&W unit.

I would like to order one of this and would like to know, if you are going to order one for you to? So maybe we can go for a group buy or something like that.

I think to order the LM-1 with some accessories....

REgards
Iwan

[Iwan]

Hi Bill,

I have ordered one unit for me. Sorry, was not able to wait for your answer.

REgards
Iwan

[bill shurvinton]

no Problems, just trying to save you a few pounds. Hope you told them I recommended you :-)

Enjoy. I hope you find it one of the best purchases you have made for your car.

Bill

[GaryS]

Bill,

Did you say one of them could be used as an everyday O2 sensor ? (in a narrowband mode) - would this still need moving down the downpipe ?

G.

[bill shurvinton]

You don\'t need to necessarily move the sensor, as it depends very much upon the state of tune of you engine (and therfore the EGT)but if you put a deeper bung on that shields it you should be fine.

Slight correction. The techedge unit has a simulated narrowband output, the innovate does not. I\'ll nag Klaus to add that in a future release.

Bill

[Iwan]

Hi Bill,

the Innovate unit have 2 programmable outputs as described in manual. I think, we should be abl to program the output and connect this to the ECU wich should get simulated values.

Couse the standard lambda is working like a resistor, the voltage wich is seen by the stock ECU should be simulated by Innovate unit...

Maybe I\'m wrong !?!

REgards
Iwan

[Iwan]

Ha cheked the Innovate manual once again. Under the topic "Advancede Topic" is as follow:

11.1 Connecting the LM-1 to simulate a narrow band oxygen sensor.
It is possible to install the wide-band sensor in place of the OEM oxygen sensor. In this case the
meter\'s analog output signal will replace the OEM oxygen sensor\'s signal to the fuel injection
computer. EFI equipped cars typically incorporate a narrow band oxygen sensor. These sensors
are typically 1, 2, 3 or 4 wire sensors.
The analog output connector of the LM-1 can simulate the operation of a narrow band sensor
while the wide-band oxygen sensor is installed in place of the OEM narrow-band sensor.
Factory equipped Analog output 1 of the LM-1 is programmed to simulate a narrow band sensor.
Some vehicles are equipped with oxygen sensors that do not produce an output voltage but
change their resistance depending on exhaust gas content. These sensors cannot be simulated.
They are used in less than 1% of all vehicles. Refer to your vehicles specifications if you think
that your vehicle may be in this category. The same is true for vehicles already factory equipped
with a wide-band oxygen sensor. They cannot be simulated.
Some EFI-computers will create a fault when the heater power wires of the oxygen sensor are
disconnected. In this case mount the old oxygen sensor in a safe place (but not necessarily in the
exhaust) and connect the heater wires to it to keep the EFI-computer happy.
Be careful where you mount the stock sensor, as heated sensors will get
hot.
To connect the LM-1 to the EFI-computer, first determine what kind of narrow band sensor is
used, then follow the instructions below (requires a digital multimeter to determine correct OEM
sensor wires):
a. Vehicle has a 1-wire sensor:
Wire analog output 1 directly to the wire.

REgards
Iwan