RX-7 buying - general questions

[papacroft]

Hi
I\'m looking to buy an RX-7. Initially I was after buying a standard twin turbo, but Rixio dazzled me with an outing in his single turbo version.
I am after a standard looking car and test drove a car yesterday and wanted to write down what I saw and experienced and the questions I have in the hope that some can be answered and help me with the buying decision.
The car is a single turbo modification. The owners of the car know nothing about the car mods and how they operate only a list of the equipment fitted. The car was imported to be sold. Essentially they are part-time car dealers.
Here\'s what I saw:
The car appeared to have no turbo timer. This surprised me when considering the money someone in Japan has spent changing to a single turbo. Should I be surprised or is this quite common?
 
The car had 2 boxes, one on the drivers side, one on the passenger side.
Defi - boost controller and Greddy turbo controller. One of the boxes connected to a dash mounted meter. Can anyone give me an idea of why there are 2 boxes and what advantages / disadvantage there are?
 
The AST tank was still plastic and it would appear wise to change.
 
The engine was really hot when I arrived. ie. openning up the bonnet and the heat just hits me in the face. It had been driven from their storage to their house and then left idling. The engine wasn\'t running when we arrived but started easily several times. There was no excessive smoke.
I\'m guessing in part that the engine was left running in an attempt to put some charge into the battery. I say this as there was loose nut lying around on the suspension mounting and one of the guys pointed toward the battery mounting points.
However how concerned should I be that the car was hot?
 
 
On driving the car all seemed in order. The clutch is a twin plate race style clutch which took some getting used to. It was on/off. Slightly too much revs and rear wheels were spinning. Not enough and you were stalling it. That said, I managed to master this within about 10minutes.
 
The engine was rebuilt about 20,000 miles ago and the car has done about 78k miles.
 
The car is on ebay at the moment 220154728714
 
Any advice is much appreciated
 
Thanks
Mark..

[Brett]

Just moving this to the appropriate section.

[memski]

Hi and welcome,

The car appeared to have no turbo timer. This surprised me when considering the money someone in Japan has spent changing to a single turbo. Should I be surprised or is this quite common?

Not a problem, as long as the car is driven off boost for the final few miles and let to cool off a timer isn\'t necessary.

The engine was really hot when I arrived. ie. openning up the bonnet and the heat just hits me in the face. It had been driven from their storage to their house and then left idling. The engine wasn\'t running when we arrived but started easily several times. There was no excessive smoke.

Rotary engines do run very hot, as long as it doesn\'t overheat then that\'s the main thing. Starting when hot is also a sign of good compression, but I would want to get it checked properly at a rotary tuner/garage. What boost pressure does the turbo run on? Any mention of fuelling mods?

[lockwood77]

There is some debate about whether alloy ASTs are better; there is certainly nothing to fear from the plastic one as long as it\'s in good shape (no splits).

Turbo timers are a bit of an irrelevance in my opinion - if you drive off-boost for a few minutes before parking up, you should be fine. Leaving the car sitting around idling will actually heat the oil up, unless you have been absolutely caning it right up to the point of parking - I fitted an oil temp gauge at the weekend (admittedly only to a filter sandwich plate, so not as accurate as a sump fitting) and noticed that the oil ran surprisingly cool compared to my DC5 Integra Type-R (upper 50s to low 70s on the road, whereas the DC5 will go to 100 at motorway speeds) - I put this down to the twin oil coolers (the UK and JDM Type R/R2 versions have these).

What really struck me though was how I could drive off-boost for a few minutes before reaching home, with oil temps around 65, which would then go up to 70+ with just 30 seconds of idling (it is also a slow drive up to my house, so not much airflow to keep things cool). Turbo timers thus have the same effect (there is one on my car, but I don\'t let it go more than 20 seconds and I don\'t get out of the car while it\'s running anyway, so it doesn\'t serve much purpose!) In fairness, this jump in temperature at idle could be down to heatsoak from the position of the sandwich plate/filter as much as actual oil temperature rising.


Can\'t understand why you have what sounds like two boost controllers? The Defi one (assuming that\'s the one connected to the gauge) could be a Defi Link Control unit, which isn\'t a boost controller but a controller for their gauges (you can add several, hence the "Link").


What evidence of the rebuild did they provide?

[nick english]

this is the link to it
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=220154728714&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=012

[lockwood77]

I guess it\'s a fresh import? In which case it needs a re-map if it hasn\'t had one (looks like it\'s been to WGT so hopefully this has been done or at least pointed out!)

I would want a compression test (they might as well have had that done while it was at WGT for the sake of £35). 20k miles isn\'t a huge distance on a rebuild I know, but it\'s a small price for peace of mind and potential savings if for some reason it\'s got low compression!

If it\'s a fresh import you will likely need new tyres too, as Jap rubber is much harder and frankly not good on our roads (especially as it\'s getting colder). If it doesn\'t have one (can\'t see it listed) you\'ll need an alarm fitting of course. And the stereo will need an expander at least, if it\'s Japanese.

I might be wrong and it\'s been in the country for a while, in which case ignore all that! If I\'m right though, you\'re looking at several hundred pounds on top of the asking price to get it right for the UK (up to £200 mapping, £100+ per corner for tyres, £2-300 for an alarm, stereo if you\'re bothered).

[papacroft]

I guess it\'s a fresh import? In which case it needs a re-map if it hasn\'t had one (looks like it\'s been to WGT so hopefully this has been done or at least pointed out!)
 
I would want a compression test (they might as well have had that done while it was at WGT for the sake of £35). 20k miles isn\'t a huge distance on a rebuild I know, but it\'s a small price for peace of mind and potential savings if for some reason it\'s got low compression!
 
If it\'s a fresh import you will likely need new tyres too, as Jap rubber is much harder and frankly not good on our roads (especially as it\'s getting colder). If it doesn\'t have one (can\'t see it listed) you\'ll need an alarm fitting of course. And the stereo will need an expander at least, if it\'s Japanese.
 
I might be wrong and it\'s been in the country for a while, in which case ignore all that! If I\'m right though, you\'re looking at several hundred pounds on top of the asking price to get it right for the UK (up to £200 mapping, £100+ per corner for tyres, £2-300 for an alarm, stereo if you\'re bothered).

The car needs all that you say ie. alarm, radio expander and compression test. The compression check wasn\'t done at WGT. I think he did a basic check over the car, changed the filters and informed the importer of the specification, enough for him to be able to list the features for sale etc.
The remap is another issue, as I don\'t know what ECU is being used. I\'ve seen many cars with APEXI systems, but I don\'t know whether an alternative ECU has been fitted or it is factory standard. In any case it wants some form of adjustment for the UK.
Thanks for the cost estimates.

[papacroft]

What boost pressure does the turbo run on? Any mention of fuelling mods?

I don\'t know this at the moment. Hopefully if the car is still available on Thursday, I can confirm this with someone who is experienced with RX-7\'s. This in part is my problem with this car, as the vendor is not experienced with the product he is selling and I am still learning all the subtleties of modified cars. Still forums like this make the learning process much easier.
Thanks
Mark..

[lockwood77]

Hmm, and therein lies another possible problem - it can\'t possibly be a stock ECU with a single turbo, but if it\'s something other than a PFC you will struggle to find someone to map it in the UK.

Depends on the final asking price, but my view would be to get a comp test then decide whether it\'s worth the money (including all the extras you\'d need), or if you can get something similar that\'s been in the country longer and hence has more known history (e.g. rebuilt over here, single turbo conversion here etc.)

I went through all these sorts of things when considering numerous cars over the two years I was looking at them! Finally settled on a car that was top end of the price scale but had all the right things done, recent rebuild by reputable UK specialist, mapping done at WGT, good quality mods that can handle a bit more power if I want it, good bodywork & interior etc. etc.

If that car went for the £5500 it\'s currently at and the comp test was OK, you\'d have a bargain on your hands. On the flipside, if it goes for more like £7k and you spend a further grand getting it up to UK spec, you\'re approaching the price of cars with more UK history that crop up for sale on here. At that point, you really have to start looking hard at comp test results, specific features that you like, quality of the bodywork etc. to decide if it\'s the one for you.

[papacroft]

Can\'t understand why you have what sounds like two boost controllers? The Defi one (assuming that\'s the one connected to the gauge) could be a Defi Link Control unit, which isn\'t a boost controller but a controller for their gauges (you can add several, hence the "Link").
 
 
What evidence of the rebuild did they provide?

I think you are probably onto something with the Defi link control unit. Maybe the buttons on the control unit can be used to control the different measurements made by the meter or meters.
 
I didn\'t see any evidence for the rebuild, although I wasn\'t looking for this at the time, but I believe there is a sticker on the bodywork which he believed indicated a rebuild.

[papacroft]

Hmm, and therein lies another possible problem - it can\'t possibly be a stock ECU with a single turbo, but if it\'s something other than a PFC you will struggle to find someone to map it in the UK.
 
I went through all these sorts of things when considering numerous cars over the two years I was looking at them! Finally settled on a car that was top end of the price scale but had all the right things done, recent rebuild by reputable UK specialist, mapping done at WGT, good quality mods that can handle a bit more power if I want it, good bodywork & interior etc. etc.
 
If that car went for the £5500 it\'s currently at and the comp test was OK, you\'d have a bargain on your hands. On the flipside, if it goes for more like £7k and you spend a further grand getting it up to UK spec, you\'re approaching the price of cars with more UK history that crop up for sale on here. At that point, you really have to start looking hard at comp test results, specific features that you like, quality of the bodywork etc. to decide if it\'s the one for you.

You could be onto something here. Perhaps the ECU is a bit of issue. You would imagine that WGT would have mentioned the re-map requirement but there has been no mention of this from the vendor.
When you mention bodywork on the car, there are no dents but I\'m not sure how much the external condition of the car would be lifted by a simple T-Cut and polish. The paint is badly bloomed and different shades across the car. It looks old, but I guess this is a common issue with red cars. It would be interesting to hear whether it would be possible to bring it up to a good standard with polishing etc rather than have to respray. I\'m guessing that I\'d have to go for a re-spray

[tomotadahira]

Papacroft mate. My mate lives in Leeds. Builds his own engines etc etc. He can come look over the car with you and compression test it. Mail me if you want details mate on   fc3smaniac@googlemail.com

 :Thumbsup!

[lockwood77]

Yeah, red is a right pain. On the other hand though, it\'s quite easy to spot respraying with red - just look at it under sodium lights (streetlights) - any unoriginal paint will be considerably more orange/pink.

When Pip mapped my car, he was saying how some come from Japan mapped to run 100% injector duty with their 100RON+ fuel - you can imagine what would happen if you booted it with our unleaded in!

[Rixio]

I\'l be going with Mark to check this car out on either wed or thurs...will give it a good check over & comp test to make sure everything is up to scratch.

Thanks for the good advice guys everything has been spot on so far

I do however, have my reservations about the this car, after looking again at the ebay add. Some food for thought...

Race Spec Engine...The exterior has no race spec details that i can see...not to say that it hasnt but it doesnt look race spec to me...i mean its still running an air pump
Ported Manifolds...Looks like something hes seen on my add and thought it looks cool...Theres no way to tell without removal & checking, Japanese dont do it anyway
Red Leather Seats...They look like the carbon effect cloth seats to me...
Racing spec TWR seat belts...Look stock to me...
Front Fogs...Again i dont see any

Just noticed in one of the pics that the car is standing but revving at 7400 rpm - Never a good thing to do in any rotary when standing, specially if its not mapped yet!!!!!

I for one will never trust anything that comes out of Pips mouth...

I\'l have to nick them red carpets off you if you do end up buying it :p

Give me a ring tmrw and dont forget about the meet http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43095

[TonyC]

There is something odd about the ad Rixio - it also says it has the greddy intake elbow - but look at the engine bay pic...
Strut brace isn\'t as described either.