ECU Code 45 - Charge Control Solenoid

imebgo · July 15, 2007, 03:24:10 PM

Well, I carried on yesterday and im in progress of replacing the B/W cable in the engine bay (from the EGI Relay to the air pump, X05, X07 and the diagnosis connector) because we get continuity from anywhere past the EGI relay to the +12v terminal, even with the 30amp egi fuse and egi relay removed.

What we did before was just cut into the B/W cable and replace ran a new one to the X-05 connector and kept the original wiring for the air pump and diagnosis connector, so hopefully once this is all in place I wont be getting continuity to the +12v terminal with the ignition off and I can then check the solenoids again.

Diagram:

http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/album_fullsize.html?c_photo=1345975294

Does the continuity exist because the B/W cable is faulty and connected to ground? Im trying to understand why this state exists!

Also, is this an acceptable fix, cutting the B/W cable at each component of the circuit, running same/similar gauge wire and soldering it all together using connectors and shrink wrap? (bypassing the B/W cable)

Thanks,

James

imebgo · July 15, 2007, 03:45:24 PM

A diagram showing what I think is happening

http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/album_fullsize.html?c_photo=1346055679

James

ianelvar · July 16, 2007, 02:04:36 PM

Quote from: imebgoDoes the continuity exist because the B/W cable is faulty and connected to ground? Im trying to understand why this state exists!

Also, is this an acceptable fix, cutting the B/W cable at each component of the circuit, running same/similar gauge wire and soldering it all together using connectors and shrink wrap? (bypassing the B/W cable)

Thanks,

James

Sounds like you\'ve cracked it! Yes, perfect fix. That\'s what I\'d do. See what happens when you\'ve put it all back together. :3gears-rh

imebgo · July 16, 2007, 02:26:02 PM

Heres hoping it goes back together ok

Lol, we have had the dashboard out to get behind it, pain in the ass if you ask me!

Ill let you know what the result is when we put it back together (wont be until the weekend now!)

James

imebgo · July 22, 2007, 06:15:49 PM

More problems!

I replaced the B/W cable to the connectors to stop the circuit that was being made when the ignition is off, now it seems the circuit is made with the ignition off when I either connect the 11x2 pin ECU terminal or the X-07 connector.

This is saying to me that the ECU is grounding the 1B pin why would the ECU ground that wire?

The B/W cable on the X-07 connector runs to the EL-Unit, where and what is that?

Im running out of ideas now and I am starting to think im in the wrong area

James

ianelvar · July 23, 2007, 09:47:56 AM

Mate that really sucks.

The Electrical Load Unit should be above the fuse box in the drivers side footwell.
I\'m a bit lost regarding your latest findings though. I take it the car isn\'t in a driveable state?

imebgo · July 23, 2007, 11:25:04 AM

drivable? lol no

I will check the EL Unit, thanks.

The B/W cable must be going around the car then to that unit, strange I couldnt see it in the harness by the drivers door. Its not easy since the wiring diagram is for a different model. I have replaced the wiring as per that diagram, but it might be that something is different on the B/W cable for the JDM spec and i have wired it up wrong.

Your sure that there definitly should not be continuity from the +12V side of the solenoid connector to the +12V side of the battery with the ignition off? Im checking this by using the coninuity check function on the multitester putting the red terminal on the solenoid connector and the black terminal on the +12V battery. If I swap the terminals around I dont get continuity (eg red on +12v and black in the solenoid) does this have any impact on the test?

I\'ve not given up hope yet.

Cheers,

J

ianelvar · July 23, 2007, 03:53:13 PM

From the diagram I\'m sure that\'s right. Doesn\'t make much sense to be supplying power to the rats nest with ignition off anyway. Ditch the continuity test feature

You\'re not trying to measure continuity while the circuit is on are you? That really won\'t work, and will give very misleading readings!

The only way to measue sensibly while a circuit has power is to measure the voltage at various points around the circtuit, or to put the meter into the circuit and use it to measure Amps.

Also remember that voltage is a difference in potential between two points. You can\'t measure voltage at one point, if you do the reading will always be zero. You have to state and measure voltage with respect to another part of the circuit - usually the zero volt point. This is normally assumed when talking about all things electrical, but almost always forgotten.

imebgo · July 23, 2007, 05:03:55 PM

Ok, maybe I am misusing the multitester then and its confusing me with respects to the circuit diagram!

I will go through the circuit again with a bit more care checking the voltage when it stops raining.

Thanks again!

J

imebgo · July 24, 2007, 07:09:15 PM

Ok, i\'ve gone full circle on this, back to the testing the voltage at the solenoid connectors

The double throttle solenoid is active, and that reads +12v at the +12v side and 0v at the - side.

The Charge control solenoid reads +12v on both sides. So, what can this mean?

Does this mean that the solenoid is NOT being turned on by the ECU? (continuity exists between the ECU terminal and the socket)

:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

If the wire to the ECU has continuity and measures something like 0.01 ohms in resitance, then the ECU can not be turning the solenoid on?? Either a problem in the ECU or a Ground issue after the ECU??

I need to know the next place to check!

Thanks,

James

ianelvar · July 25, 2007, 11:50:34 AM

12V on both sides of the charge control solenoid means that the ECU isn\'t activating it. You\'re on the right track. Can\'t be an ECU gounding issue, as this would affect all the solenoids. Did you over work out if the charge control is supposed to be on or off when you turn the key on?

From what you\'re saying the circuit is now behaving like it should. What happens if you swap the double throttle solenoid connector onto the charge control solenoid, and vice versa?

ianelvar · July 25, 2007, 11:53:19 AM

Here is a quick lesson in electricity for anyone who subsequently reads this thread and needs help working out what is supposed to be happening in the circuit:

A bit of roleplay:

You are now the part of the ECU that controls the charge control solenoid. Your job is to connect the wire leading back from the solenoid to GND to make the circuit when needed. So, when you want to turn the solenoid off, you disconnect the wire from GND.

Now, think about the circuit. When you\'ve got the wire connected current flows through the coil of wire in the solenoid doing work against the spring and now holds it open.

In this state the voltage over the two pins in the solenoid will be 12V. In doing the work against the spring 12V has been \'dropped\' over the solenoid.

I=V/R

I=current (AMPS)
V=Voltage (VOLTS)
R=resistance (OHMS)

So, for the solendoid:

V=12 V
Resistance=50 Ohms (assumed)

So the current = 12/50

= 0.24 AMPS

I\'m sure you\'ve seen this before. We can now calculate the power using:

W=IV

W=Power (WATTS)

12*0.24 = 2.88 Watts

We can call this the ON state.

Now disconnect the wire. The pin connected to the 12V supply will still be at 12V. Think about this next bit very carefully. What voltage will be other pin be at? The answer is 12V.

This may seem weird, but there is a very good explanation for it. The two pins in the solenoid are connected to either end of a coil of wire. If you hold one of the ends at 12V, and leave the other unconnected not a lot will happen. We don\'t have a complete circuit, and no current flows, no work is done by the coil, so we don\'t \'drop\' any voltage over it. The unconnected pin will be at 12V because it is connected the the 12V supply through the coil of wire, and there is nothing to hold it to GND to make a difference between the pins, which makes the current flow, so no work can be done.

Using the above equation again:

I=V/R

0/50 = 0

W=IV

0*0 = 0

Again, no voltage drop, no current. No voltage and no current, no power.

We can call this the OFF state.

imebgo · July 25, 2007, 01:41:09 PM

OK, your explanation makes sense to me, but, why doesnt the Voltmeter complete the circuit to GND? (i assume we are testing the circuit from the - side to the - terminal of the battery?)

Aside from that and in response to your other questions, swapping the solenoids results in the same as they both work

One thing that is happening is, if we wobble the ECU around the solenoids click off/on (the ones that were on in the first place). This must be a ground issue becuase they all click on/off (no response from the charge control)

Charge control should definitly be on from idle until the secondary turbo change over, I can not verify if it should be on when the ignition is on with the car not started though (one would assume it should be!)

I need to verify how the ground connection is being made, from the wioring diagram on page Z-32 it would indicate that pins 4C, 4A, 4B go to ground at grounding points ontop of the block these are both connected to ground points. Could the solenoids that are functioning correctly not share the same ground as the ones that are not?

More investigation needed.!

J

ianelvar · July 25, 2007, 03:11:45 PM

Quote from: imebgoOK, your explanation makes sense to me, but, why doesnt the Voltmeter complete the circuit to GND?

That\'s because voltmeters are always high resistance, in the order of millions of Ohms, so hardly any current can pass through them. It\'s designed so that it doesn\'t interfere with operation of the circuit you\'re measuring.

Quote from: imebgo(i assume we are testing the circuit from the - side to the - terminal of the battery?)

Yup.

Quote from: imebgoAside from that and in response to your other questions, swapping the solenoids results in the same as they both work

One thing that is happening is, if we wobble the ECU around the solenoids click off/on (the ones that were on in the first place). This must be a ground issue becuase they all click on/off (no response from the charge control)

OK, that\'s interesting. Try running a nice big grounding wire between battery -Ve and the ECU case. If wiggling it now doesn\'t mess things up then you\'ve cured any grounding issues you may have. If not, you might have a dodgy ECU connector, a dry solder joint on the board etc.. If you want me to send my spare Jap ECU PM me your address.

Quote from: imebgoCharge control should definitly be on from idle until the secondary turbo change over, I can not verify if it should be on when the ignition is on with the car not started though (one would assume it should be!)

I need to verify how the ground connection is being made, from the wioring diagram on page Z-32 it would indicate that pins 4C, 4A, 4B go to ground at grounding points ontop of the block these are both connected to ground points. Could the solenoids that are functioning correctly not share the same ground as the ones that are not?

More investigation needed.!

J

That\'s a tricky one. Did you try measuring the resistance between the ECU pin that activates the charge control and battery -Ve? You won\'t hurt anything if you do this, just be careful not to short it to any other pin on the ECU.

Measure the ECU pin for the double throttle as well, as this is clearly working - you should find that both will measure very low resistance to -Ve

imebgo · July 25, 2007, 03:22:53 PM

Ok, will do that tonight.

As for the offer of the ECU, thanks, that wont be needed, this is my friends car, and I have an apexi on mine so when I get around to getting it out of storage I will donating mine if its required

When you talk about grounding the case, I guess you talking about the bolt on bit that connects? How can we be sure this is the ground for that part of the circuit, why wouldnt it be the ground wires coming out of the pins?

Im also going to pull the engine harness out and inspect - do you think this is an easy enough job? I can just pull it through the firewall cant I?

James