Racing My 89 TII in February - Help!

MikeLMR · January 21, 2003, 12:04:47 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Highside
MikeLMR,

I agree that it would be an awsome project - but I think there might be some preety big heat issues - a 910 degree exhaust would melt all that plastic like a bad Salvador Dali picture.....

Cheers

Highside

nah, no real problems, my spare 12a will be going in my kit car once its been SVA\'d I\'ve seen a few Sylva strikers (same as mine) fitted with 13b\'s & 12a\'s the hardest part is silencing them, not a lot of room to fit silencers down the side of a 7 !

Paul-Tll · January 21, 2003, 06:23:03 PM

Don\'t want to sound negative but a proper welded and
fited roll cage through to front turrets is Â£1200 qouted
to me just 2 weeks ago for my FC.
2nd hand trailor circa Â£600
Helmet , suit, gloves, boots Â£525+
big race fees and fuel Â£Â£
Do you race already? If so I\'M sorry to of bored you!

OH nearly forgot FMIC from Â£1000 for a drop in(ish)
bir front rad (fluidyn?) Â£500
Injectors (4) Â£450
fuel pump walbro? Â£150
ECU Â£1000
suspension mods nothing or skys the limit
ex\'st system made up \'through\' mild steel about Â£400
with theese mods youll have blown the engine and turbo
I would really love to see you race and be more than willing
to help out on race days in any way
very good luck (you have my time I wish I had your money)
Paul TII

hIGGI · January 21, 2003, 06:24:08 PM

Highside

if u want something on budget, i might be able to offer you something

)

u might want my shorthrow shifter and maybe dual alternator pulley too

http://rx7cz.net/photos/shifters/

don`t hesitate to contact me at higgi@rx7cz.net

pictures of my project TII are here http://rx7cz.net/photos/

about good FMIC for cheap, there is idea welding two stock topmounts together...guys pressure tested it and it was putting out nice numbers.....not setup for big turbo, but for stock or hybrid turbo it should be good and price is almost nothing...

for fuel - i just installed walbro fuel pump, very nice and for all my needs should be enought...and in some places they are under $100......

brakes - i am buying stock brembo rotors for $170 for set of all four here in Czech Republic, tax included. Brake pads i ordered from horsepowerfreaks.com, $90 for complete set of Hawk HP+ pads.

spark plugs does go around $6 each in USA or Canada, its 5x cheaper than here in CZ.

for fuel management, i bought brand new standalone EMS, Haltech E11. Again, best price was directly in Australia.
FCD and S-AFC is band aid, but it will work if u are keeping stock turbo and just turning boost little bit higher...Some bigger injectors might help. for FCD u will find writeup online to do it yourself....

Lightened flywheel and heavy duty 4 or 5 phuck clutch will go around $800 for set, i got it slightly cheaper from australia, but next time i will rather get it from USA.

Front strut bars is next thing we are going to produce, as well downpipes, midpipes, rollcages etc.

I am sure i forgot something, but for start it should give you some info too

))

Grizzly · January 21, 2003, 06:35:50 PM

I am not being funny but you will need to do things properly if you want a reliable car.

I dont know what reg\'s you have to abide by? I can only tell you how to make a fast road car.

You will have to think how much you are willing to spend? Racing is not cheap and how serious are you going to do it?

Chris

Highside · January 21, 2003, 07:45:10 PM

Grizzly said the following wise words......

"I have to point out from the start i am not a track man! but i do like Country lanes. LOL"

Dont we all!

"Ok, Do you know how far you want ot go?, what sort of budget you have? or most important are you willing to import parts?"

I only have a month to sort the car - and it has to remain road legal (for the regs of the race). My budget is of course, like most racers, invisible, right until I find something I really "need"! Realisticaly I have about Â£700 I can spend on the car before the race - but I need to miximise the perfromance for that money.

"First thing to look at is Suspension and Brakes."

Agreed. However, Having replaced the bushes on, er, more senior Japanese cars before, I know what a b*tch of a time consuming job it can be. If I had time on my side - I would be doing this already. I know what a fantastic difference it can make! I think new shocks and springs will have to wait Im afraid - But definately on the list for the future!

"Brakes are a bit of a vauge point, the stock mazda ones are very powerfull and work well (four pots) but all i did to uprate them is fit grooved Disks all round and some fast road pads (for track you\'d want some pads a little harder then mine), also for a bit of extra feel i fitted some Braided brake hoses."

Brakes are in good nick (the car has only done 42K from new), but I will be relacing the pads and the lines. Can anyone recomend a good place to source some pads (hawks? Green/red stuffs?) and braided lines for the TII?

"Engine, The problem with T2\'s is you have to do allot of stuff to replace to get good Hp this is where your Goal comes in?. When tuning a rotary for reliablity with some power you must spend most time and effort making sure you have a good fuel sytem, this can be done easly by geting another stock t2 fuel pump and adapting the pump assembly to acept two pumps...."

Nice Mod! Is it just a case of splicing on the 2nd pump to the same harness? Anything else I need? Has anyone on the list got a spare fuel pump?

".....hence saving some cash, with the extra cash buy 2 1000cc injectors and a Rising rate fuel regulator, ...."

OK. Which type, where from, and how much?

"....now you are ready for your ECU. I recomend the Haltech E11 its new out and you\'ll need to fit a new engine loom..."

(!)

"... but its got a Windows based 3d map,Omp driver and is a bit of a Gizmo (Base maps can be down loaded from Mat\'s Hitman site). Once the Ecu is done the Air flow meter can be lost (very restrictive)."

Sounds good - but I can hear the cash register from here! go on, how much? Really? Still want one!

"The next thing to do is look at the water cooling system, i like to be safe so i went for a K2RD alloy rad and a new set of hoses. "

I will have to do some investigation into new rads - what about junking the viscous coupling fan and replacing with a high cfr electric jobbie?

"One more thing that is a Must is dubble belt Alt pulley this becomes very important when you loose the Air pump as there is only one source of drive for the water pump without one."

Thanks - good point.

"Now your Fueling is capable of more power you want to look at your Turbo, the stock turbo and intercooler will start to loose its eficancy at 300hp (flywheel hp) but there is a problem the stock Turbo wa never designed to take this sort of power and will not last long the other thing you will encounter is boost spike this is caused by the Turbo\'s wast gate being to small to cope with the Exaust flow thus not slowing the turbo spool down and basicly over shooting the set psi.
So anything over this Bhp will need an Uprated Turbo and External wast gate,now you have the turbo you will need to go ft mount too, check out E-bay as there is always Fc ft mounts second hand for sale (US)."

I\'ll probably stick with the stock turbo for this race, as it\'s more complexity and time. After that though....

What about the wastgate mod described on FC3S-Pro?

"Gear Box & Diff, you will be happy to learn the fc T2 Box etc is very strong and can handle up to 400 bhp without a problem. as for cluches and flywheels MazdaTrix do a Tilton Double plate Clutch and 9 1/2lb flywheel that is the best deal i\'ve found."

A new standard Mazda cluch was fitted 2500 (and three years!) ago, so I will just run that until I hit problems. Maybe. I have heard very good things about Tilton - my brother runs one in his Lotus Talbot Racecar, and is a very happy man!

"Exhaust and Air filters. Exhaust, you realy need a 3" down pipe to back box, if you are not going for looks and want pure flow and hp go for a Single (ie. an exhaust that does\'nt have two tail pipes) you will save some weight and there is little to no diffrence in power (just watch how loud it is if you want to use it one the track). "

I am having trouble trying to get a 2nd hand exhaust - I guess they are prised posessions! However, I gave powerflow a ring, and they reconed they could manufacture me a straight through exhaust from the torbo into a single can for about 400 squid (unconfirmed). Has anyone fitted a powerflow to there TII? Comments?

"Air filters are also personal prefrance i have always used K&N they can be bought as Universal saving time and money (does\'nt say RX7 on the box?). "

Which K&N, and what sort of TID did you manufacture?

"Once all that is done you can then think about what port style you want but thats for another day."

Indeed, but I\'ll be sure to come and ask you boys first.

"I would like to take this time to say sorry for the spelling and i hope it makes sence, its 1.20 and i\'ve typed all this for the second time, I hate computers."

Chris - thank you so much - your a star. Sorry for all the returned questions, I hope I\'m not the sole cause of your insomnia for another night!

Cheers

Highside

PS - Sorry for the messed up quotes - did\'nt seam to come out how I intended!

Highside · January 21, 2003, 07:55:06 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Grizzly
HighSide, Where are you?

Chris

At 02:10 in the morning? IN BED!

er... I guess you were talking geography - I\'m currently based in Northampton.

Cheers

Highside

Highside · January 21, 2003, 08:07:41 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Paul-Tll
Don\'t want to sound negative but a proper welded and
fited roll cage through to front turrets is Â£1200 qouted
to me just 2 weeks ago for my FC.
2nd hand trailor circa Â£600
Helmet , suit, gloves, boots Â£525+
big race fees and fuel Â£Â£
Do you race already? If so I\'M sorry to of bored you!

OH nearly forgot FMIC from Â£1000 for a drop in(ish)
bir front rad (fluidyn?) Â£500
Injectors (4) Â£450
fuel pump walbro? Â£150
ECU Â£1000
suspension mods nothing or skys the limit
ex\'st system made up \'through\' mild steel about Â£400
with theese mods youll have blown the engine and turbo
I would really love to see you race and be more than willing
to help out on race days in any way
very good luck (you have my time I wish I had your money)
Paul TII

Paul TII,

Don\'t get the illusion that this is a big money project - it\'s not!

Yes I do race already, but up \'til now I have been racing bikes - but a nasty spill at Beckets last year (hence the name Highside..)has put pay to that - for the time being at least.

This will be my first Car race (I have done some sprints & hillclimbs before though). However - entry is closed to road going cars only, so no need for a rollcage unless I start cutting holes in the chassis, and it is run by the VSCC, so it is a pretty gentlemanly affair! However, lots of nice cars every year, from pre-war Alfa-Romeo Monza\'s to D-types to 911 etc etc. Anything go\'s as long as it is raod going.

The whole event is based around a 70 year old handicaping formula, so in theory we all have an equal chance of winning. In theory!

After the Silverstone in Feb I will probably take the car off of the road and prep it properly, posibly with a view to entering the Toyo tyres mod prod championship next year, and perhaps some more sprints and hillclimbs.

The race is on the 22nd of February, and of course you are more than welcome to come along, the more the merrier. There are rumours that Nick Davies might race Dave Dockery\'s FC, so there may well be a couple of us out there!

Cheers

Highside

Highside · January 21, 2003, 08:13:07 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by hIGGI
Highside

if u want something on budget, i might be able to offer you something )

u might want my shorthrow shifter and maybe dual alternator pulley too

I would certainly be interested in teh Dual alternator pulley, and perhaps the short throw shifter. How much would you want for them?

Thanks for even more advise - I wish I had found you guys sooner, I have been wasting my time trying to get some sense out of the guys on TeamFC3S - they seam more interested in cosmetics and posing. Get a Fiesta for God\'s sake!

PM me the details if you get the chance.

Cheers

Highside

Highside · January 21, 2003, 08:32:38 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Grizzly
I am not being funny but you will need to do things properly if you want a reliable car.

I dont know what reg\'s you have to abide by? I can only tell you how to make a fast road car.

You will have to think how much you are willing to spend? Racing is not cheap and how serious are you going to do it?

Chris

Chris,

Message recieved loud and clear.

I have no interest in creating a fast car with all the reliability of a grenade with a plasic pin.

Basicaly for the race in February, I only want to build a fast road car (but with no interior, a bucket seat and four point harnesses, obviously

).

My budget in the short term is 700 GBP. However, after the Pomroy Trophy race, I will be taking the car off of the road and stripping it back ready for a full racing season in Mod-Prod in 2004. More funds may well apear at that point, bank manager allowing.

Rest assured - I would much rather just be slow, have fun and learn a bit in February with a mildly modified road car, than blow the engine and waste my time and money, just because I wasn\'t patient enough to learn the rotary ropes...

Thankyou for all your help already - you have already started to put me on the right track!

Happy Racing

Highside

Grizzly · January 21, 2003, 08:44:43 PM

No problem mate.

To be honist your not going to get very far on Â£700.

If things were reversed and i was looking to get a car ready to race i would be looking Tyres, Brake Pads + lines, good bucket seat + Harness and Fire extinguisher this is the basic stuff.

If you already have this stuff i\'d leave the Bushings for now (possably do the Toe eliminators) then fit the biggest badest Anti roll bar i can get my hands on and leave the suspension at that.

Then exhaust and Air filter, the Exhaust sounds like you have sorted but the Filter is simple to sort out, get your hands on a demon tweeks motor sport catolouge and measure the air flow meter inlet and pick a Universal to suit (cost about Â£50 max).

I would then start looking at making a FCD http://home.rmci.net/panther/ adding a second pump and Rising rate Regulator.

Chris

Grizzly · January 21, 2003, 09:04:30 PM

As for the car its self i\'d loose the PS pump and piping + air pump (dont forget to put a Double alt pulley on). You want to speak to a guy called Chris Wilson about moding the PS rack to none power assist.

Pull the turbo off the car and flow the wast gate hole so you can get best flow, this will help with boost spike a bit.

as you say you can pull the Rad fan and all the plastic shroud off and get a big electric one from a brakers and rig it up to your rad (you can get ajustable thermostat from Demon Tweeks or any good spares shop) whilst the rad its off clean the Oil cooler (they get goo\'d up)

Basic stuff you can do to help is things like making good air flow through the ft of the car.

O yeh one more thing you may want to fit is a oil temp/Presure gauge they can be bought quite cheap but gives you a bit of warning if somthings wrong.

Chris

Highside · January 21, 2003, 10:03:09 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Grizzly

To be honist your not going to get very far on Â£700.

If things were reversed and i was looking to get a car ready to race i would be looking Tyres, Brake Pads + lines, good bucket seat + Harness and Fire extinguisher this is the basic stuff.

If you already have this stuff i\'d leave the Bushings for now (possably do the Toe eliminators) then fit the biggest badest Anti roll bar i can get my hands on and leave the suspension at that.

Then exhaust and Air filter, the Exhaust sounds like you have sorted but the Filter is simple to sort out, get your hands on a demon tweeks motor sport catolouge and measure the air flow meter inlet and pick a Universal to suit (cost about Â£50 max).

I would then start looking at making a FCD http://home.rmci.net/panther/ adding a second pump and Rising rate Regulator.

Chris

Chris

You would be amazed what you can do on very little - so far I have spent Â£120 and landed my self a Sparco Evo Bucket seat with alloy side mounts (used once, then put back in it\'s wrapers), a Sabelt 3inch 4 point harness inc fixings (never fitted and still in the original packaging), and a MOMO boss from Adam (cheers) for 25 quid, to fit a MOMO wheel that a mate has promised me from his writen off rally car.

Thats the interior (I have an extinguisher which just needs a Â£25 recharge) for Â£390 less than the list price in Demon-tweeks (not including the steering whee or extingisherl). It can be done!

That leaves me Â£580 pounds, to get, based on what you wonderful people have told me + some basics:

An Extiguisher (recharge) Â£25
New TII Hood (From RX Motors) Â£75
Air Filter Â£50?
Powerflow Exhaust (maybe) Â£400ish
Another Fuel Pump Â£??
Tyres (Prob Toyos) Â£??
New Pads (Advice?) Â£??
Braided Lines (Advice?) Â£??
Toe Eliminators (Poss DIY) Â£Materials Only
FR & RR Rollbars (Poss DIY) Â£Materials Only
FCD (Poss DIY) Â£Materials Only
Rising Rate Regulator (Supplier?) Â£??

Hmmm, maybe my budget is looking a bit shakey!

Does anyone have some images/drawings of some toe eliminators? If so, could you post them up?

Happy Racing

Highside

Grizzly · January 21, 2003, 10:14:22 PM

The Toe Eliminator bushings are fairly simple looking things i can lay my hands on the Dimensions if you can get stuff like that made?

As i say have a look at Racing Beats site, then see Ro technics who are Dealers for racing beat!

http://www.racingbeat.com/FRrotary.htm

They will sell all the bushings,anti roll bars,brake pipes etc.

When you have a little more time to mess about get in contact with MazdaTrix, they have alot of experiance with Race Fc\'s.http://www.mazdatrix.com/

Hope all this helps.

Chris.

P.S. when seting the Pumps up make sure they get 12v at full throttle (if not you can relay it so they get 12v all the time but you must have a Rising rate Fuel regulator)

Highside · January 21, 2003, 10:25:12 PM

QuoteOriginally posted by Grizzly
The Toe Eliminator bushings are fairly simple looking things i can lay my hands on the Dimensions if you can get stuff like that made?

Cheers Chris,

They look preety simple - just a Nylon or ABS bush with a steel or possibly stainless inner.

Shouldn\'t be too tricky for to knock up on a lathe.

Can you get me the dimensions? If so fantastic!

If I can get an initial set made up and tested to make sure they fit and work, and don\'t cost a fortune to produce, I might be able to make up some more at if people are interested? I\'ll let you all know.

Cheers All,

Highside

Grizzly · January 21, 2003, 10:30:50 PM

yeh no prob\'s

I have a set that is going in one of the cars but i\'ll draw a little diagram for you and scan the Instructions (just shows which way round etc you fit them)

Put your e-Mail up and i\'ll get them to you tomorow.

Chris

P.S. They are made from Delrin with steel inserts.