Methonol Injection

[Prof]

It\'s more about the injection of the water / methanol into the air stream - the fine droplets evaporate very quickly removing heat from the intake charge.  If you mix the methanol in the fuel, you wont get that effect.

[richard cash]

no, but you\'ll get an increase in Ron number wont you?

[Prof]

no, but you\'ll get an increase in Ron number wont you?

You might well do, but without controlling intake temps you could get detonation, which is really what the WI+Methanol is all about.

Even with a big intercooler, if your not getting good airflow, or your getting heatsoak or sucking in hot air, the intercooler cannot get the temps down as well as WI.  That\'s because the water misting is very effective at removing heat from the air - just try standing in the mist from a hose - it\'s cold !  Since the water will evaporate, it passes through the engine and exhaust harmlessly as steam - along with the water liberated from combustion.

Since it comes on only when you are making boost, and therefore increasing the intake temp still further, the amount of water used is less than if it was added all the time to the intake charge.  In theory it allows you to run higher boost before det occurs, or run more efficiently with current settings - a cooler charge will make a little more power

[Ricco_04]

Funny methanol mixed with fuel has been mentioned - I was watching a vid about CVT and they where on about using 15% petrol to 85% methanol - but anyway that\'s off topic.

I like the other benefit of WI that helps to keep your engine clean :yes

[kev-yorks]

Mixing it with the fuel could have reliability issues with the fuel pump i\'d imagine.
Kevin

[mufc]

mixing it with fuel will kill tanks, fuel lines etc, unless these are all being replaced with something that is methanol safe it\'s not good. By injecting it in the intake stream either pure or mixed with water it will sufficiently bump up the octane rating, as it\'s the octane rating in the combustion chamber that matters most. Water and methanol injection even though it brings down the air intake temps this is not really what it\'s about, it\'s very effective at reducing combustion temps, water not being a fuel does not burn so you will not get more bhp when injecting water, it does effect the peak cylinder pressure, and remove a load of heat from combustion, so you are able to run more timing and or leaner afr which then give you a increase in power and torque. In my experience water injection has a much greater affect on torque than bhp, due to it\'s affect in delaying peak cylinder pressure. Having the jet placed closer to the throttle body will have more affect on combustion than oplacing the jet just after intercooler pipe. Ideally you want water injection with some kind of controller to meter the amount of water being injected compare to fuel. You also need to work out what percentage of water you will be injkecting in comparison to fuel. Not eneough water will minimize it\'s effectiveness, too much will quench combustion process and will hurt power and torque. It\'s best to have goos quality ignition leads and ignition amp with water injetcion. Many use water as a safety measure i.e no ignition advance no leaner afr, this is ok but it does not harness the potential of water injection. You could run leaner afr and more advance timing with the right water injection setup with increased power and torque while still being safe.
Methanol injection is quite different from water injection in the sense that unlike water it burns in the combustion process, therefore small increases in power and torque can be seen before leaning out afr or advancing timing.
Methanol has a different stoich value athn pump fuel, pump fuel stoich is 14.7:1 methanol has a stoich of 6.4:1, so you can map to the correct afr when injecting 100% or in 50/50 mix methanol due the the different value. This is why it\'s important to calculate the amount of of water meth or straight methanol you will be injecting compared to pump fuel, as you will need this calculation to calculate your new stoich value, in order to get correct afr. Again you can run leaner afr and more ignition advance while still being safe, it helps with your fuelling also as it burns. I have run 1.9 bar on a few occasions on a tomei fuel pump(same as skyline apexi r33 pump) with 850pri 1680 sec due to having additional fuel being supplied by injecting the methanol. Methanol is known to be quite corrosive on it\'s own, but is less hamrful when mixed with water. I had post trubo egt readings of 780c at 1.9 bar. Which I judged would equal approx 900c pre turbo. Once you experiment with water/meth or straight meth and begin to advance the timing and see significant increases in torque and bhp while still having low ait and egt, you will be presently suprised. I personally for different kinds of runs etc would say injecting water methanol would equal a race fuel of 115 ron is it\'s resistance to self combust, but as stated that\'s my view.

[BlitzBoy]

:yes  quality post mufc

[Prof]

Bit more info on the corrosive nature of Methanol :

Clicky Link

And Wiki article

[peterwolds]

what excellent reading - had a chat with kev yorks & arrouk other sunday about going wmi on mine due to lack of cold air feed, looks like i will be booking in with pip shortly to get it fitted when wastegate modified along with uprated fuel pump,additional injectors and a bit of a remap - more £££££££££££ \'s,looking forward to the end result :mmmm

[RemarkLima]

Cool thread guys!

Looks like WI is on the shopping list

A few questions from a noob:

It sounds like it\'d be better to get WI fitted rather than a bigger SMIC for a more profound effect, sound about right?

As I understand it, when you make positive manifold pressure the "norm" is to significantly enrichen the A:F mix, so WI would allow you to lean this off? I\'m also thinking about fuel economy here as it\'s one of the most painful things about these cars!

Finally how much water do you use? Say a 2L tank, how long would that last?

TIA!
Mark