Aftermarket traction control system?

[Bobfish]

But letting the arse get a bit jiggy when going straight is different to trying to floor it round a bend. It\'s the latter that puts you in a ditch.

I agree with you completely, but would you not agree that a complete loss of power to the rears when sideways would be WORSE than having the wheels spin?

Go out and try it, if you like, floor it up to a hairpin bend, stamp on the brakes until you are doing a suitable speed and turn in, come off the brakes when the back starts to go - then throttle it so you have a nice rear end slide.  Now take your foot completely off the accelerator - i guarentee you will end up flipping back the other way, or worse - end up running wide off the roundabout and into said ditch.

[DreXeL]

I\'m getting used to driving forward at a 20 degree angle whilst on boost in this weather, I just go with the flow

I agree with you completely, but would you not agree that a complete loss of power to the rears when sideways would be WORSE than having the wheels spin?

Go out and try it, if you like, floor it up to a hairpin bend, stamp on the brakes until you are doing a suitable speed and turn in, come off the brakes when the back starts to go - then throttle it so you have a nice rear end slide.  Now take your foot completely off the accelerator - i guarentee you will end up flipping back the other way, or worse - end up running wide off the roundabout and into said ditch.

Oh yeah I agree, I was refering to veilside\'s post, where he was basically saying you\'ll end up in a ditch by doing what you described in the previous post

[Bobfish]

and its damn good fun isnt it.

Do you agree with my above statement then? or no experience of it?

Seriously, i wouldnt recommend traction control, its false security. Id rather drive cautiously round bends rather than thinking i can floor it everywhere because i have TCS.

I would liken TCS to ABS - Its good for what its supposed to do (i.e stop wheelspin in a straight line/stop wheels locking when braking) but they are both liabilities in the wrong situation (when youve lost the back end/on low grip surfaces)

[DreXeL]

Do you agree with my above statement then? or no experience of it?

Yep, I agree completely, although I \'feather\' the throttle to control the slide rather than floor it. In my experience flooring it just makes me do a 180 (might be something to do with the 1.5 way diff in my car?)

[Bobfish]

Yeah i only floor it in a straight line, you have to be careful when your sideways - throttle controls the angle of the slide, steering controls the arc of movement - you have to find a happy medium between the two.  Give it too much throttle, and the angle of the car surpasses the angle of steering relative to the direction of movement and the only way to go is round round baby.

[Bobfish]

oh, and flooring it sideways at the wrong time is only ever going to make you do a 180.  No diff in the world will prevent that

However, there are certain situations and speeds where you can floor it and get a lovely screaming smoking slide going dont hit the redline though, as this severly upsets the balance of the car (because the rear wheels slow down, which is exactly what TCS does)

[iaint]

I think that you\'re missing the point guys - Tim wants TC as he feels it\'d be a nice backup/safety net in case things go unexpectedly squirrely.  Nothing wrong with that.

I also agree that you shouldn\'t rely on driver aids to get you out of trouble.  TC won\'t help you out if you enter a corner too fast or lift off suddenly mid corner when you\'re near the limit (lifting off mid corner is never an issue when well within the car\'s handling envelope).  TC systems don\'t (as implied in an earlier post) kill all the power suddenly - clearly that\'d be suicide - they reduce power to give the slipping wheel chance to get a grip.

If traction control is so awful why do F1 car have it?  Why do all the seriously expensive cars have it?  Why does almost every car released these days have it?

I\'m pretty sure that a lot of the guys who no longer have their pride and joys due to a FD-scenery interaction would have been happy to have TC fitted if it made the difference between a dent and scrapyard...

Give the guy a break!

Iain

PS. I don\'t drive mine like a girl*, I get it out of shape sometimes - almost always intentionally, I\'ve left the track at Silverstone doign 80mph, backwards.  I know the cars limits and enjoy playing with them.  Wheelspin is a great laugh and is a little mid-corner/roundabout drift.  I do know what I\'m taking about to a certain extent.

* Apologies to girls out there.

[Bobfish]

If traction control is so awful why do F1 car have it? Why do all the seriously expensive cars have it? Why does almost every car released these days have it?

For the same reason that 90% of cars are now FWD or 4wd. Because people are retards and cant drive. Too many people killed themselves in RWD cars, so they have to make it safer. TCS is an option for doing that. If you are really paying attention to your driving, then you shouldnt need it.

I understand what you say about him wanting it though, but IMO traction control is best kept as a manual job.

[iaint]

Interestingly - there\'s likely to be a move back to RWD cars as pedestrian impact legislation means that the engine needs to sit lower to make the bonnet a soft zone.  This means no room for a diff in the front and therefore less fwd cars.

The main reason for cars beciming FWD in general is nothing to do with safety - it\'s almost 100% because the cars are much cheaper and simpler to produce and therefore more profitable for the manufacturers.

I do agree that many drivers are useless muppets but these people don;t drive their cars hard.

There are definately times when the conditions aren\'t great and I\'m in the FD but not pressing on that the added safety net of TC would make things more relaxing.  If you\'ve got a 2nd car then use it when not hooning but many only have the FD and drive it for fun and mundane journies.

Concentration should certainly be high in the FD as it\'s got no aids other then ABS and no airbags and antiquated crash structures compared to modern thinking.  That\'s why they\'re so pretty

[shez]

I actually own the car that Racelogic developed the system on and it is still fitted.

The car is still going strong, so no long term worries.

In my opinion, the system is great.  I enjoy spinning the wheels and sliding the back end around as much as anyone.  At the end of the day you can always turn the system off!  I don\'t really use it in the dry, I agree that being able to control the car with your right foot is a challenge and very satisfying to master.

However, that said, when you are pulling onto a busy main road at rush hour in the wet, you can switch the system on and give it full throttle and it will give you the fastest (and safest?) possible launch.

I would say go for it and have the best of both worlds.

[iaint]

I actually own the car that Racelogic developed the system on and it is still fitted.

The car is still going strong, so no long term worries.

Thanks for your input Shez - it\'s this kind of useful info that is needed!

[TRex]

^ WOT he said....

 Thank god.     Well done Shez

[FD3SNuttah]

the traction control on my 323 fires the brakes too, as well as cutting the spark when i give it too much right foot. with it switched on i can throw it at any bend full wack and i will be very sure i will make it to the exit! It does hinder you when launching and it comes on auto when you start the car, you have to remember to switch it off if you want some fun.

In the wet it can still go sideways (if you are being an idiot), but i know that it will catch me and tell me to behave. If i have switched it off in the rain then its a totally different car, i have to be extra careful,

does the race logic have a TC function?

[iaint]

the traction control on my 323 fires the brakes too, as well as cutting the spark when i give it too much right foot. with it switched on i can throw it at any bend full wack and i will be very sure i will make it to the exit! It does hinder you when launching and it comes on auto when you start the car, you have to remember to switch it off if you want some fun.

In the wet it can still go sideways (if you are being an idiot), but i know that it will catch me and tell me to behave. If i have switched it off in the rain then its a totally different car, i have to be extra careful,

does the race logic have a TC function?

I think (although never owned a car with it som I\'m not sure!) that you\'re confusing Treaction Contron (TC) with stability control (ASR, etc.).  Traction control will limit the power to regain grip, the other systems do all sorts of clever things to help you stay on the blackstuff.  It may well be all labelled under the same button but, imo, should be regarded as separate features!

AFAIK RaceLogic only does the power limiting side of TC.

[GeckoGareth]

Correct the RaceLogic system is just controls the power not braking.

Interestingly Autocar have review of the new 2006 Elise which now comes with TC. It\'s the same sort of system as the racelogic in that it doesn\'t brake individual wheels but monitors the (new) ABS sensors on the car to detect slip and cuts power accordingly. Autocar despite their usual very driver focused approach agreed that the system is really good an for everyday use they\'d leave it turned on as it only cuts in when you get into trouble. This would be similar I guess to the RaceLogic system where you can allow a certain degree of slip up to 30% before the system cuts in.

Cheers

G