Which Intercooler!!!!

[Rx7Chris]

Hi Guys,

I\'m running a completley standard Rx7 Type R at the minute but i am wanting more power and so i have heard i will need to upgrade the intercooler i want a FMIC so where would be the best place to get one i have seen plenty on Ebay but i\'m not so sure putting cheap stuff on my car. So any ideas guys on where you bought yours and as everyone wants i\'m sure the cheaper the better but obviously still a good make as i know they vary.

Which ones are the best ya know out of (HKS, Blitz, Greddy) that sort of stuff.

Cheers Lads

[goose]

It all depends really. How much power do you want and what boost pressure do you want to run to?

[JP825]

V-mounts are the best...

[Rx7Chris]

Hi goose i\'m not 100% sure what power i want to be running i was thinking around the 350bhp at the minute but as for boost i have no idea new to all this you see sorry if this makes it difficult.

What are V mounts???

[goose]

Well, if you want less than 400 brake, you\'ll only need a SMIC of some sort. You\'ll get less lag that way.

If you are new to this, may I suggest modifying your car for reliability first. There\'s a whole bunch of stuff you need to do before upping the power, such as:

-Installing a boost gauge (if you don\'t already have one)
-Uprating the radiator and ensuring the hoses are in good condition
-Ensuring the vacuum lines that control the turbos are not cracked or hardened
-Installing some sort of upgraded ECU (ie Power FC)
-Check the fuel system is in good nick - clean injectors and new fuel filter. The stock system is good for 14 psi of boost.
-Additional mods, such as replacing stock AST (do a search)

All boring stuff, I know, but it\'ll save you money in the long run. If you are doing the work yourself, it\'ll give you a chance to learn about the car.

[bin liner]

Get a FMIC and be done....apexi gt FMIC,no need to upgrade later on either.As for the increased lag that is a myth, the increased pressure drop is negligible at the most.I have the apexi FMIC with three inch pipework from turbo to intercooler and four inch after intercooler with a  four inch stilway elbow.

[goose]

So you are saying that an FMIC has no greater \'throttle volume\' (the volume of air contained between the turbos and the throttle body) than an SMIC setup?

Pressure drop is really dependant on the routing and total length of the pipework, as the FMIC itself should be more efficient. That is only one factor in creating lag.

I\'m a great believer in designing a system to spec, rather than over-specifying individual parts. There is always the trade off between drivability and usable power which must be considered.

[Rx7Chris]

Thanks goose thats great

[bin liner]

So you are saying that an FMIC has no greater \'throttle volume\' (the volume of air contained between the turbos and the throttle body) than an SMIC setup?

Pressure drop is really dependant on the routing and total length of the pipework, as the FMIC itself should be more efficient. That is only one factor in creating lag.

I\'m a great believer in designing a system to spec, rather than over-specifying individual parts. There is always the trade off between drivability and usable power which must be considered.

The pressure drop of a FMIC over a SMIC is NEGLIGIBLE, measure it and see.You need to be more concerned with lag when you are selecting different turbo(s) than when looking at FMIC vs SMIC.

[goose]

The pressure drop of a FMIC over a SMIC is NEGLIGIBLE, measure it and see.You need to be more concerned with lag when you are selecting different turbo(s) than when looking at FMIC vs SMIC.

Thanks for that. I agree with what you\'re saying regarding pressure drop as I\'ve mentioned before. Although routing of the pipework is critical, for instance one 90 degree bend can produce a pressure loss of around 1 psi.

But you still haven\'t answered my question about the total volume of air in the inlet. Do you consider this to have no effect?

[bnaellis]

Thanks for that. I agree with what you\'re saying regarding pressure drop as I\'ve mentioned before. Although routing of the pipework is critical, for instance one 90 degree bend can produce a pressure loss of around 1 psi.

But you still haven\'t answered my question about the total volume of air in the inlet. Do you consider this to have no effect?

Minimal, also this is not lag this is throttle response. Depending on when your turbo spools it won\'t even be noticeable.
You\'ll find the intecooler itself rather the intercooler pipes hasthe biggest affect on pressure drop also.

[JamesFD3]

Chris,

Don\'t dismiss some of the ebay kits out there,I went for one off ebay from a US company with good feedback.Half the price of the Japanese stuff.

A little bit of work to fit but I have tested it extensively on track and it works extremely well and I\'ve been very happy with it,Pip at WGT also commented during tuning the car how well it performed.

Here\'s few piccys.

James

[Rx7Chris]

Yer that looks sweet mate of mine just bought one for his 200sx (bloody piston engines) lol it only cost him £160 and that is holding up well

[iaint]

To safely upgrade the intercooler (either FMIC or a v-mount) you need to look to the fuelling and ECU at the same time, possibly the injectors if you\'re upping boost as well.  You should avoid running the injectors at 100% or anywhere close really - mid to late 80s is safe.

Cost of the intercooler will eb about half of the cost of the upgrade...

ECU ~£600
Fuel Pump ~£300 fitted
Injectors - £a few!
Mapping - ~£250+

You\'re probably looking at £1500-£2000 plus the intercooler.

While you\'re at it you\'ll need to upgrade the radiator - more power = more heat!

If you start pushing much above 300rwhp you\'ll also probably need to upgrade the clutch, possibly move to colder plugs and maybe add spark boost for it to run smoothly.

To get most benefit from the mods you\'ll ideally have already removed the Cat and upgraded the induction system.

At this point you\'ll have something between 300 and 350 rwhp (on standard twin turbos) so don\'t forget to upgrade the breaks!

By now you\'ve probably spent the best part of £5-6k and may as well spend the extra £1500-£2000 for a nice single turbo

Welcome to the inevitable world of modding your FD

[Mike]

Hmmm - don\'t want to get into a big tuning discussion so I won\'t comment on iaint\'s post, but to clarify the whole pressure drop thingy...

Intercoolers themselves do not cause the pressure drop, its the restriction seen on the setup before, and after the turbo all the way up to the intake. The turbo is only a pump, so the more restriction you impose on it (either side) the less power/pressure it will be able to develop.  A bigger intercooler should have less restriction, and be more effective (if designed well) as the air will move slower through it, and sharp 90 degree elbows are a no no...

To get the best setup you need to consider the compressor map of the turbo your using and and stay in that efficient area!

Stopping now!...

Mike...