Dragon Circuit car

[AtomicRex]

AtomicRex how did you learn about chassis?
Make a few mistakes try again make it better? At least hes trying and posting it up for us to see.

No I did 2 years of a Mech Eng Degree before changing to Maths with Astrophysics.

I do agree that there are many ways to build something, but frankly I would sooner sit down with a book and understand the fundamental principles before even cutting and welding.  Having experienced this first hand, I am happy to criticise the work

As for trying I do agree, it\'s great Ross posts this up...

[gsb876]

If you guys do race it will be very interesting for sure :Laugh :cheers

[DRAGON]

The chassis hasn\'t been thought out using any knowledge of compression and tension mechanics....It looks far more like lets weld a bit of metal here and another bit over there.

If the it hasn\'t been built with these in mind, then can you please point out the fundamental mistakes?

[AtomicRex]

The over complication of the roll cage!

I cant believe that you\'ve actually sat down and worked out the design on paper prior to cutting and welding, when i was there even Monkey said that you were welding parts on just because you could!

So are you able to tell me when a join is in compression or tension?  I presume you\'ve thought about the way the loadings are going to translate through the chassis?  When understanding the type of force appropriate to each join, you would understand what gauge of metal to use, and whether the angle is correct.

[DRAGON]

So your assumptions are based on the fact that you dont think I designed the cage? There are some fundamental rules to follow when designing a cage, you will obviously know of these with your extensive knowledge. As you presume mine is random then please point these out!

For your information I used various sources. One being Chassis engineering by Herb adams. And also Multibody Systems Approach to Vehicle Dynamics by Mike Blundel, which is far more involved, but very usefull. I also have the auto math handbook, which gives many formulas for weight ditribution/centre of gravity/weight transfere etc.

Its easy to criticise Jon, and I know your motivation is not positive. I would rather put my efforts into other posts too genuinely interested people, rather than responding to your assumptions.

Your overal theme is that you think this car will not work. And I am impressed that you have followed that up with £1000 bet. So as they say \'talk is cheap\'. Lets see how it goes at the track.

[AtomicRex]

Ross, it is a shame that you didn\'t use these books when designing my roll cage!  There you made huge errors, and i am basing my judgement on these, as well as the fact you are putting bars in irregular places.   Why an earth did you put one that goes up the centre of the screen?  Having followed motorsport for many years I have never seen a bar like this.

Looking at the differences between your cage and mine, bearing in mind mine has been designed by a professional company and is FIA rated, yours is overly complicated....which leads me to believe that although you\'ve bought those books, they certainly weren\'t applied!  For one Ross you forget Ive met you, and personally I don\'t think you are capable of understanding the level of mathematics involved.  I know you are probably going to get this post removed by the mods, but I am only saying what I feel.

As for the bet....how about you name a price and I will match it....make it 5 figures instead???  Talk isn\'t cheap....I can back it up!

[sadgoth]

Looks good there Ross! As for the comments about the roll cage and chassis being/or not being well designed - those sort of comments should be explained for us mere mortals. Why (in laymans/basics technical speak) is this not a good design? Just because it isn\'t designed the same way as say Safety Devices design theirs does it mean that Ross is wrong? I\'m not actually siding with anyone here, just interested in what needs to be taken into account when designing a cage and chassis bracing?

[Adriansturgess]

Personally think this thread is getting a little unpleasant....I don\'t agree with attempted public humiliation.....AtomicRex if you\'ve got grievences against Ross its probably better to take them up with him in person than use the forum in this way. I don\'t know Ross (other than seen him at RS3) but I think he is generally good for the Rotary scene and shouldn\'t be slurred publically in this way.

[ro284]

Atom. why an earth did you put one that goes up the centre of the screen? Having followed motorsport for many years I have never seen a bar like this.

just because you havent seen it yet, does not mean it\'s inferior.
perhaps you just haven\'t read the right book yet! This cage is ahead of it\'s time! it\'s the one i would rather have!

Atom. Looking at the differences between your cage and mine, bearing in mind mine has been designed by a professional company and is FIA rated, yours is overly complicated....which leads me to believe that although you\'ve bought those books, they certainly weren\'t applied! For one Ross you forget Ive met you, and personally I don\'t think you are capable of understanding the level of mathematics involved.

Whats with the insults? and my cage is better than yours crap,
This is a brilliant thread and many people are watching it with interest, and i can see this thread ending up being closed, and we all lose out.! (and that\'s happened before) so could we think about whats best for the club please Atom. and stop cluttering up the thread with digs and insults, spoiling it for everyone else.

Adrian, Personally think this thread is getting a little unpleasant....I don\'t agree with attempted public humiliation.....AtomicRex if you\'ve got grievences against Ross its probably better to take them up with him in person than use the forum in this way. I don\'t know Ross (other than seen him at RS3) but I think he is generally good for the Rotary scene and shouldn\'t be slurred publically in this way.

Agree with Adrian
Bob

[sadgoth]

As I said, if critiscisms are to be made, let them be on a purely technical basis (with a full explaination as to why) I think that would benefit us all as we could learn from two views of people who are actually involved in building competetive cars. Keep the personal stuff out of the thread eh? Any issues that you may or may not have with Ross personally are best sorted out off the forum.

[kevint]

The mods really don\'t want to have to edit and/or close another thread - but we will if we have to.  AtomicRex, if you respond please keep your  slurs/grievances out of here.  Ross has been good enough to share his work with the forum and it is of interest to many here, he doesn\'t deserve AtomicRex\'s negative comments.

Kevin

[A7NTY]

Atomicrex, you sound like a real know it all idiot quite frankly. If you had Ross put in a cage for you that you thought wasnt ok because you did an engineering degree, then why didnt you make that compaint, why did you have him do the work? More fool you pal.

Keep up the good work Ross, there are always internet warriors that know best, just ignore them.

So now you own a \'real race designed car\' well done, the medals in the post.

[Archbish]

YEAH WELL EVERYONE\'S WRONG!!  I\'m going old skool with my cage.

[Spotlamp]

You guys make me laugh :rollin

Ross - I\'m really impressed with the work you\'re putting into your car and especially for sharing this with us on MRC.  Whilst I appreciate that it may not have been designed using the finest F1 mechanics and developed from the ground up from a carbon-fibre monocoque chasis, it certainly is a fine piece of engineering which ever way you cut the mustard.

I know you\'re knew here Atom, but this isn\'t the place to wash your dirty laundry.  There\'s a community that\'s been built up over many years and it\'s not usually adviseable to wade in the way you have if you want to make any friends.  It would also be nice to see some pics of the build up of your car as well if you have any?

Anyway, it\'s always good to see some friendly rivalry as ultimately this drives the rotary scene forwards here in the UK - which is why we\'re all in this club.  I look forward to seeing both cars in action.

H

[A7NTY]

Atom sent me a very reasonable email which was more than fair.

He has complaints regarding Ross\'s work and I have advised him to present them in a more appropriate manner than he has done, which quite frankly irritated me enormously when reading his posts.

Cheers, Ant.