Charge cooler vs intercooler pros & cons?

[John Yorke]

I\'ll see what I can do in the next day or so, car is being stored whilst we moved should be collecting it today or tomorrow, now that I have cleared my new garage, if you have seen Geffs set up it is quite similar allthough mine sits infront of the alternator [ Geff has relocated to where the aircon pump should be]

[FD3UK]

I have water injection on my car and and SPA temp sensor in the the intake elbow. SPA sensor reacts much faster than Mazda one and gives an instant readout of tempratutre change. I would see intake temps of upto 80C in the summer on full boost run, this drops to 35- 40C with water injection. So you would see much more than 5C gain.

Kev

[John Yorke]

Originally posted by FD3UK
I have water injection on my car and and SPA temp sensor in the the intake elbow. SPA sensor reacts much faster than Mazda one and gives an instant readout of tempratutre change. I would see intake temps of upto 80C in the summer on full boost run, this drops to 35- 40C with water injection. So you would see much more than 5C gain.

Kev

Think you might have missunderstood, I have been advised fitting water injection to my setup would result in inlet temps of atmosphere + 5c ie: if it is 20c air temp I can expect inlet to be 25c

[BlitzBoy]

Yeah I should have had a look when I had a chance a Geoffs chargecoller setup, hey maybe 20B_boy could post some pics up of it.

[Donato]

Originally posted by John Yorke
Having run a FMIC for a year I found I  was getting high water temps [fmic sitting in front of rad, hot days = high water temps, the run back from Le Mans I was having to back off seeing temps of 110c] Decided to go charge cooler last August, to date I have found consistanly lower water temps [85-95] but charge temps are now 5 - 10c higher.
My conclusion is FMIC are great but they restrict the cooling of the rad [not good for the engine] unless you look at V mount and vented bonnet [loads of dosh]
I think the charge cooler is a better option, a lot less work and plumbing, the water pump is reliable and I would have thought you would have as much chance putting a hole in a FM as the pump failing.
To address the higher charge temps I will be fitting water injection.
Hope this helps:D

Hi John,

You had the aircon rad in that setup didnt you? I now have the exact same setup as John but have removed the aircon and added a vented bonnet, and removed the undertray (still testing whether this is better or worse) but my water temps are 85-94. Inlet temps vary depending on ambient temps but are pretty good. Obviously there are a couple different factors but you can have good engine temps with the FMIC, especially if your willing to remove a few creature comforts.. i never used the air con anyway...

Cheers

Donato

[John Yorke]

Hi Donato
Glad to see you are progressing well with your project, I\'m sure the vented bonnet will help no end, but like you I didnt have air-con [hey its for wimps anyway:) ] and still found high temps, but only on sustained high boost I was running 1bar non-sequentialy same as you, the run back from Rouan? to Calais WAS sustained high boost running 7k+rpm a great deal of the way.
I dont think the removal of the under tray is a good idear this will create more air flow problems than it will solve dissapating the heat.

[Donato]

John,

When i say experimenting, i havent had the undertray on since the car went back together, and my temps are good, im planning on fitting it soon to see what happens with the temps, i have also still to remove the aircon pump, which will help with the airflow around the engine too.. and i still have to run air ducts but im waiting on the sleek headlights to arrive so i can remove the pop up motors to accomodate the ducts. Then i should have a good idea of the temps.

I take it you are keeping the yellow beast now? Last i heard you were selling..?

Cheers

Donato

[John Yorke]

Originally posted by Donato
John,

When i say experimenting, i havent had the undertray on since the car went back together, and my temps are good, im planning on fitting it soon to see what happens with the temps, i have also still to remove the aircon pump, which will help with the airflow around the engine too.. and i still have to run air ducts but im waiting on the sleek headlights to arrive so i can remove the pop up motors to accomodate the ducts. Then i should have a good idea of the temps.

I take it you are keeping the yellow beast now? Last i heard you were selling..?

Cheers

Donato

Yep she\'s staying:cool
The biggest problem with the set up you /I had, is that the twins generate soooo much heat.
As I understand it the tray is there to aid air flow and is an intergral part of the cars airodynamics - directing air under and through the engine bay.
The sleek light kit is a great idea as an aid to getting cold air to the induction, I have just about sorted my one out:D
Taking the aircon pump out is also a good move:)  
A] it reduces wieght
B] gives you the chance to re-position the alternator and therefore lower the center of gravity [and it makes the engine bay much tidier

[Donato]

Originally posted by John Yorke
Yep she\'s staying:cool
The biggest problem with the set up you /I had, is that the twins generate soooo much heat.
As I understand it the tray is there to aid air flow and is an intergral part of the cars airodynamics - directing air under and through the engine bay.
The sleek light kit is a great idea as an aid to getting cold air to the induction, I have just about sorted my one out:D
Taking the aircon pump out is also a good move:)  
A] it reduces wieght
B] gives you the chance to re-position the alternator and therefore lower the center of gravity [and it makes the engine bay much tidier

Glad to hear it!

Please dont get me started on the single turbo route! I have only been nonsequential for a matter of months and im already thinking of going single, just cant afford it at the moment! Im getting a respray in jan so i have to keep my pennies for that.

Hopefully the headlights will be here soon..

I hadnt thought of repositioning the alternator, might look into that as the clearances between the alternator pulley and my intercooler pipe is minimal to say the least! There are scratch marks where it has actually dug into the pipe a little!

The undertray was laziness on my part, to be honest since i got it back on the road i have been to busy driving it! Such a difference with the non seq set up, its so much easier to drive, i was at knockhill a few weeks ago, that was lots of fun!!

Glad to hear you are keeping the rex, i will dig out that CD you like for rotorstock!

Cheers

Donato

[MikeLMR]

Be very carefull about removing the thermostat in any engine, the cooling system is designed to work with that restriction in place and I seem to recall on the earlier rotary engines that removing the stat will lead to water not flowing correctly around the engine and causing it to overheat.

as for thermostats being fitted to allow the heater to work quicker :rollin  its to allow the engine to heat up properly and not spend forever running up to temperature. Engines are designed to work in a certain temperature range with the clearances etc. running and engine too cold is going to do it damage.

in my opinion if you need to remove the stat to stop your car from overheating you have a problem and need to look at increasing the cooling capacity of the rad etc. rathe than masking the problem by removing the \'stat

[John Yorke]

Totaly agree Mike:)  same goes for the undertray as well.

Donato.................... dont start me on southpark again, I only have to hear it now and I get a raging head ache, I am sure you could reduce a bit more weight and remove your sound system:D

If you thing the non-sequential is fun wait till you go to a propper single:bandit

I understand moving the alternator is a fairly straight forward job.............will let you know in due course.

[Donato]

:rollin  Dont worry, it wasnt even my cd! It was my car but not my cd!

However! The car will be arriving at rotorstock with its new far louder ice install which i bought her for xmas!

I learnt my lesson last year, i will not be mixing stella and white wine again, and if i do im sure someone will rugby tackle me if i go anywhere near my car to put some music on! :rollin

I will go single but i think it will take a year or two of saving...

Cheers

Donato

[sdminus]

In theory what you say about the stat is correct but in practice it doesnt work that way. i ran my car like it all summer and it is unstable and requires constant monitoing of water temp. the stat will be going back in asap. somebody in the know told me that with the stat removed there is a way for some coolant to bypass the rad.

[scooby_si]

so with a charge cooler will running a uprated rad not be a cunning plan for even better water temps, wasnt\' sure what the issue was with upright ones in relation to the airlock keep it in standard position type comments.....?
Si

[rx7veilside]

thermostat is there for engine to run in correct range and yes it doesnt do to have too cool a running engine.but the reason it is closed to begin with is to enable water temp to reach operating temp for creature comfort as ur water maybe hot but it is oil temp that will give best indication of whether engine has reached operating temp..removing stat will let engine run cooler but will lead to decreased heater effcncy and will only drop it a few degrees..water will still flow thru the rad in exactly the same way but it is because it will be cooled maybe too much that cool running hot spots can occur in cylinder cars(not sure on a rotary)some people have removed stats and have electric water pumps as well to aid cooling..all this will be over the top for a road car.track use is completely different as the abuse is that much greater with sustained boost..maybe one of the tuners could chip in with an expert view