As promised Freddy, the first pic is the T51R with the heat shield the second pic is the T88 with V-mount :)
T88
Here is a table of approx power outputs from each turbo available, obviously different power output for different cars ie skylines / Supras / RX7\'S:)
http://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=169943&highlight=T51R+T88
A debate about which is more streetable T88 / T51R??
American rx7 forum - //www.rx7club.com
Like the look of the 2nd engine bay set up. Nice
Agree with Steve. The setup on the second kit flows very nice.
Fish
Gurj, cheers for that and nice talking to you earlier today :)
So, input from anyone else? Which turbo and set up would be deemed best for the strip.
Although, i\'ve just finished reading the RX7 club thread. It does not really give much of an insight as to which turbo is better of the two and which would give more power gains. Not just on a turbo chart but when it comes to the strip :D
rgds
If you are serious about it, how about looking at a new GT42 kit?
The T51Kai and T88 are old hat technology. The new roller bearing turbo\'s have better spool up and with the new(er) blade design will flow loads more air.
Fish
I often see quotes of turbo units on the american forum that we are very uncommon with, is the rooler bearing turbo the way forward???
As at the mo people here are bringing the T78 / T88 / T51R to the forefront but as Fish says they are quite old turbo units so whats the new format we are going to see???
Roller i meant of course!!!:rolleyes:
QuoteOriginally posted by gsb876
Roller i meant of course!!!:rolleyes:
It\'s OK, you\'re one of those northern people. ;):p
Fish
Easy i is Midland folk!!!!!:rollin :rollin :rollin
Not southern softy or northern monkey!!!!!:p
LOL ;)
surely yer north of the middle midlands thou (http://www.computerpannen.com/cwm/cwm/3dlil/laff.gif) pmsl
Si
You\'re both past the thames, that makes you a pair of northern monkeys. :p
Fish
t51r will normally be prefered to the t88 as the t88 is old technology. T51r is more modern and much lighter than the t88 and spools quicker than the t88 and has better newer blade design etc etc.
I\'m not saying this just because I have a t51r it\'s just the truth.
rgds
I am overly serious about huge power gains. Nothing to comete with in rotorstock. Just to see off some top marques :) However, I\'d rather stay with old school turbo\'s as they are probably more easier for tuners to deal with and proven to work. Or are there people with the roller bearing turbo\'s running quick times.
Brian, I hear you have a beast of a T51r in the making. Hope its going well. I had been told that the T51 actually spools later than a T88. Is it an agreed overall concensus then that the T51R is superior by far?
I wouldn\'t say superior by far but greddy t88 is an old school tubro produces crazy power the t51 is similar but is modern alot lighter internals hence quicker spool up and produces similar power. No two ways about it both are monster turbo kits on an fd. As far as spool time is concerned that willalways vary from car to car as the type of porting you have makes big difference to spool up especially on big turbo\'s like these as does tuning but t51r will quicker than a t88.
rgds
G\'day from Germany,
from my little knowledge they are few types of T51
T51 = Old turbo
T51R = was on market after T51 (I think)
T51R-KAI = this is one of the "modern- turbo" but still on old school bearing.
T51R-SPL BB = ball bearing type which is the latest version.
T51R-SPL or T51 R-KAI are common setups in Japan for Drag. Cars with T51R-KAI or SPL get better results as cars with T88-33D.
Both setups are made for drag only, so track cars are often equipped with TD07-25G or smaller Mitsu turbo TD06. Only one turbo can be found on track cars as well on drag cars, the T04R.
In my opinion both setups T88 or T51 are not usable for daily driving. T51R-KAI and SPL version are water cooled core, so this is better for German Autobahn.
REgards
Iwan
you have t51r kai bb also.
rgds
so if i was looking for a moderate/high single turbo conversion what wud be the best choice to go for as in around 450bhp but i wudnt want the lag time sooo long i took a drive in a t78 single before i got mine and that was fast but had alot of wheelspin even in dry because the turbo didnt fully spool up until around 3&3/4 - 4k so u had to control it aswell as give it gas to get anwhere. my bros running a t78 in his supra which is shit fast when driving it really puts u in the back of ur seat and hardly spins out(unless u try to) but when i raced it with the rx its relativly slow? probs because of the weight issue, dont get me rong he leaves me after a while but i can still keep up a fair bit and aint that far behind. so what would be the best and what kind of times wud i be lookin at 1/4 mile wise? and depending on the power gains how much would i have to spend on the rx cos i know my bros bill for the supra was near £8k but that was including interior mods aswell new racing seats and alloys etc
any1 have the answer to the above question??^^^^
Rixio:wave
Maybe a T04R???
Makes good power without too much lag, although i do favour the T78 to be honest Rixio;)
The blades on the T51r SPL are also larger than on the KAI units
g dawg how long does it take for ur turbo to fully spool up what revs is it at? and how much did it cost u do get it done or did u buy it like that?
rixio:wave
The T78 was already on matey, takes up to 4500 - 5500 revs to really start going!!!;)
If you are looking for a 450hp turbo then a GT 35/40 would work well.If setup correctly it starts to spool well by 3000 rpm all the way to the redline.
Kind regards
Carl
QuoteOriginally posted by Rixio
so if i was looking for a moderate/high single turbo conversion what wud be the best choice to go for as in around 450bhp but i wudnt want the lag time sooo long i took a drive in a t78 single before i got mine and that was fast but had alot of wheelspin even in dry because the turbo didnt fully spool up until around 3&3/4 - 4k so u had to control it aswell as give it gas to get anwhere. my bros running a t78 in his supra which is shit fast when driving it really puts u in the back of ur seat and hardly spins out(unless u try to) but when i raced it with the rx its relativly slow? probs because of the weight issue, dont get me rong he leaves me after a while but i can still keep up a fair bit and aint that far behind. so what would be the best and what kind of times wud i be lookin at 1/4 mile wise? and depending on the power gains how much would i have to spend on the rx cos i know my bros bill for the supra was near £8k but that was including interior mods aswell new racing seats and alloys etc
Is that 450bhp at the rear wheels or flywheel?
rgds
well preferably at rw how much is the loss if 450 at fly compared to rw?? ack its gona cost me too much i might aswell get another one like i planned anyways but i wana get one that doesnt give soo much lag. carl have you got any more details of that setup cos i could look for one like that specifically or i can get this veilside c2 t78 one thats coming next month
rixio:wave
QuoteOriginally posted by Rixio
well preferably at rw how much is the loss if 450 at fly compared to rw?? ack its gona cost me too much i might aswell get another one like i planned anyways but i wana get one that doesnt give soo much lag. carl have you got any more details of that setup cos i could look for one like that specifically or i can get this veilside c2 t78 one thats coming next month
rixio:wave
450 fwhp is 368 rwhp
450 rwhp is 548 fwhp
Don\'t just look at a turbo to achieve those figures, you want a good engine i.e good compression first and foremost and good porting, this makes all the difference. for 450 rwhp without much lag a to4r with .96 a/r should do the job as would to4z with 1.0 a/r along with various other turbo\'s and setups.
rgds
Some good info there Brian cheers:)
QuoteOriginally posted by BNA_ELLIS
450 fwhp is 368 rwhp
450 rwhp is 548 fwhp
Some interesting dyno-related reading here:
http://tinyurl.com/46vfq
and here:
http://tinyurl.com/6sg3t
including the inadequacies of \'calculating\' FWHP from RWHP.
QuoteOriginally posted by 20B_boy
Some interesting dyno-related reading here:
http://tinyurl.com/46vfq
and here:
http://tinyurl.com/6sg3t
including the inadequacies of \'calculating\' FWHP from RWHP.
Well said Rich,
That is entirely true from experience.
Kind regards
Carl
The coast down bit having seen a couple of RX7 and Supra sheets from these kind of dynos looks about right i.e. rubbish! The losses they seem to compute are amazing??
Basically you have to ensure as many of the numerous variables are the same or as close as poss to make the best of its measuring capabilities, I guess we all realise that. Its tuning tool first and foremost. In order to get any meaningful comparative power measruements you HAVE to ensure all variables are maintained as closely as poss. Other wise you get rubbish out the other end :)
so cost wise to get around 450rwhp how much would i be looking at...i.e turbo kit cost porting engine rebuild and fitting etc etc for me to give some1 the car and say i want this doing from start to finish how much would it be?
rixio:wave
If it\'s to be done properly I have just totaled up 13,000 big ones.
Which is why I always state it\'s alot cheaper to buy one already singing and dancing unless you want to spend serious money for a serious machine.
rgds
hmm i cant afford 13k no chance!!! defo worth buying a singled one straight from japan. but the thing i was worried about was if i get one...what wud the condition of the engine be like??but it looks like its the jap one for me thx for all the advice peeps
Hi Rixio,
Brian does get some nice cars in from Japan.
It maybe the cheaper option.
As to getting a full single turbo conversion done on a car with a rebuild too it may cost as much as Brian said or maybe not if you get some of the parts secondhand,which they will also likely be on a car from Japan.
If you were to buy a car here that needs a rebuild for say around £3000.00 and allow around £2500.00 for the secondhand turbo kit,£1000.00 for a decent intercooler setup,Injector kit and fuel pump and regulator for say£500.00 and add the engine rebuild price of say £2500-£4000.00 depending on what\'s done you then have a total of around £9000-£10500 for a car with a fresh engine.
You would probably want to budget for a bit extra say £1000.00 for odd partslike ECU if needed but that would give a reasonable ball park.
Some of my prices for parts are more than they neccessarily need to be but include some labour as well for fitting.
These are a very rough guideline so it may well still be better to buy one of Brian\'s nice ready to run cars.And as I said earlier,Brian does sell some very tasty machines.
Kind regards
Carl
Hi Carl,
The total really does add up. You got twin plate clutch to handle the power, ignition amp if running higher boost, upgraded ht leads, boost controller, just these few parts here can cost 2k without the labour for fitting.
rgds
Brian
QuoteOriginally posted by Carl
Hi Rixio,
Brian does get some nice cars in from Japan.
It maybe the cheaper option.
As to getting a full single turbo conversion done on a car with a rebuild too it may cost as much as Brian said or maybe not if you get some of the parts secondhand,which they will also likely be on a car from Japan.
If you were to buy a car here that needs a rebuild for say around £3000.00 and allow around £2500.00 for the secondhand turbo kit,£1000.00 for a decent intercooler setup,Injector kit and fuel pump and regulator for say£500.00 and add the engine rebuild price of say £2500-£4000.00 depending on what\'s done you then have a total of around £9000-£10500 for a car with a fresh engine.
You would probably want to budget for a bit extra say £1000.00 for odd partslike ECU if needed but that would give a reasonable ball park.
Some of my prices for parts are more than they neccessarily need to be but include some labour as well for fitting.
These are a very rough guideline so it may well still be better to buy one of Brian\'s nice ready to run cars.And as I said earlier,Brian does sell some very tasty machines.
Kind regards
Carl
Hi Brian,
Single plate clutches that have an uprated pressure plate have proved to be quite adequate for an engine of this power if they are looked after.
That would be considerably cheaper than a twin plate.Maybe £250.00
I have some big hp engines that are not running ignition amplifiers,not convinced as yet that they are needed.
Boost controller may come with a secondhand turbo.
A very good one that is top of the range is the "E" Boost,it is £300.00 new.
As I said earlier though Brian,it would still probably be just as well for Rixio or anyone to come to you or one of the other importers like Miguel for a very nice ready to roll car with most if not all of the work done.
Don\'t forget that my figures are for a fresh engine though.
Kind regards
Carl