I was wanting to know what you guys considered as must do mods to a standard FD RX7, your reasons for them and in which order to do them?
Depends on what you want to do/use the FD for and whether routine maintenance creates the opportunity for mods.
My experience was;
Purchased a reasonably good FD (1993) with rebuilt engine,
OE bushings required attention, so swapped all bushes for Poly.
Next Suspension was OE and tired, so swapped suspension.
Brake Discs and pads were OE and tired, so swapped for Tarox discs and Ferrodo pads,
This continued over a few years (usually a winter rebuild) and now I have changed the above parts (including engine/turbo etc etc) for more uprated parts....and this winter changed even more parts.
The trick is selecting the right upgrade parts. ;)
or if your FD does not need parts changing, just enjoy driving it ;D
Chris
And Chris is very modest...his car is a beast!
If yours is bone stock and been off the road awhile need to confirm all healthy b4 you starting modding.
On an fd you cant just bolt on exhaust induction and uprated intercooler like you can on other turbod cars. The map will have be adjusted to suit the better breathing in an out.
Thatsvwhere an Apexi fc ecu comes in...its twice the operating speed of factory ecu and then with all bolts on can be safely mapped.
Cheers Guys well Mods wise I only have a Greddy induction kit and HKS Hi power exhaust system so pretty much stock.
So is the next step an Apexi FC? is it worth looking for second hand or should I wait and get a new one?
Also what does a stock FD run boost wise and what is a safe amount of boost to run on stock? or is it not recommended to use a manual boost controller and get any gains that way?
I have read about people dropping the sequential for a non sequential setup what is the upside and downside of both setups?
Cheers Dax
Just been reading about Chris's motor and your right about it being a beast!
Apexi fc defo if gonna do anything else....and do not put an mbc on. It will need mapping for any future mods.
Cant remember standard boost pattern. 10. 8 . 10 psi i think as the turbos transition.
Ive had non seq on my last set up and had lots of trouble controlling boost despite getting an apexi an mapped.
What do you want to do with it...if your heading to track need to look at the rad and ic as these fd generate heat.
I would say.
Downpipe.
Apexi.
Rad and ic
No boost til its mapped and youll be 300 plus.
If you go single turbo...then far bit of fabrication downpipe n manifold. Bigger injectors after and fuel pump . defo rad and ic upgrade and remap.
Its important to remember that if you change something that gonna affect the air fuel ratio the map will need to adjusted to put more fuel in. Take a 200 sx...you can put an adjustable wastegate on wind it in til youve got13psi and instant 250bhp...50 increase...the car will adjust fueling via the o2 and maf sensor as there is that capability on the fd there is not a maf and there is not the capability without mapping to adjust the fuel.
Piston engines can take alot more knock/detontation/ pinking than a rotary.
Modern cars will detect knock and detune the engine to a safe limit.
You got a boost gauge...if not defo get 1 see whats going on.
Well I might do a track day once or twice a year if lucky but really I just want a quick road car for the mo to go to meets and shows, having 4 little people means spare time for the track is a luxury at the min lol. But not impossible ha ha
I would like to keep the twins too for the minute so with the ic, rad, and Apexi I am looking at 300+bhp? is that with the base map or once it's got a proper map on?
Yeah got one, but it's not in yet can't decide where to mount the bugger lol but will get it banged in asap lol
With it mapped mate. Mapping is about £350 . Second hand apexis are about £400.
What downpipe is onit? Hopefully stock if on standard ecu? Might have been chipped in Japan? Sometime theres stickers on the ecu....
Mate with the mods you already have get a 3" decat pipe, a thicker intercooler and a power fc then go to a tuner and get mapped to about 0.9 bar. That will take you over 300bhp easily and give you a very capable Street car. Do not go non seq as it's just an easy way of robbing you of low down power, the twin pack is not the best power producer but does do a good job in sequential due to their small size. The non seq just acts like a single turbo but without the simplicity and power advantages.
If you want to go further you can push on with seq like I have our take the plunge and just buy a single. The single will be more powerful in 99% of applications but I can happily say I've sat up the arse of many in my stock twin just down to low end power delivery tbh.
Aside from that it's test the car and replace where things are tired. I've stuck with oem rubber bushes and oem 17" wheels and happy with them tbh. I have replaced the suspension and brakes and tbh many other things for track use.
Cool well I will have to keep my eye open now for a 2nd hand Apexi.
So when it comes to IC there are some cheapish ones new on eBay are they not worth bothering with? Is it better to go for a branded one?
As for replacement down pipe again what bore etc and should I go branded again?
Sorry if the questions are stupid?
As long as it's a 3" rhd downpipe it won't really make much difference, for the ic I would deffo go a good second hand branded one. The xs power and the greddy copies are piss poor
Cheers I will keep my eyes open over the next weeks and months hopefully I can source what I need.
As for the Apexi do you know anywhere in the northeast of England or surrounding area that you would trust to map it?
When purchasing Apexi, there is three models basically, based on cars build year 1991-1993, 1994-1996, 1996->
Dont remember those years for sure but someone can correct me... :)
North East? In short, No!.
I use powergains in Essex personally
What's the cost of a map there? Neil?
3-350 pending how much mapping needed
It's a canny drive out from here lol so add another 100 quid onto that lol guess it's worth it considering that it will be it done right! Are powergains a rotary expert?
Yup Powergains ARE a Rotary Expert :D
Kerim is the owner, fantastic guy who goes the extra mile to make sure your happy with the service. That creates a problem though, it means he's mega busy at times. I travel from near Leeds to Powergains. Made 5 or 6 trips last year for Kerim to help me out.
He built and ported my current engine, fabricated the manifold and spec'd and fitted the turbo.
I'd always recommend him :)
Yep to echo Chris above, they are my only recommended tuner as they have been exceptional everytime I've been. Both Kerim and Jay have their success and client base through great workmanship and attention to customers requirements.
Plus it's £60 a night in the greatest fanny filled premier Inn I've ever known and after a weekend clubbing in the sugarHut and around Brentwood picking your car up down " the lane " was fantastic.
Overall a great weekend I wish I did more often
Sounds like a plan then lol will be a couple of months I think before I can gather the bits together and money but you have sold me on the idea lol
Forget the remap lets all go to the premier inn!
Sounds like we are planning the next meet ha ha
Mate the premier Inn with the success of towie was THE greatest place I've ever been. Doors open of scantily dressed hen party smoking hot giggling partying birds with dance music in the background. Now I was then mid, OK late 30s and loved it so you guys in your 20s then it's (censored)ing mint.
Plus it's only minutes from the crazy gypo back lane where powergains is
Well just been looking around and there are a few 2nd hand Apexi ecu's kicking about quick question if I get one with a base map and fit it can I run it like that for a while till I can get a map done? will performance change at all? also could I also run a base map and add the front mount and downpipe without running into any problems? And would I see any performance improvements on the base map adding mods?
Bit of advice please chaps i just seen this is it worth buying for fitting once I get the ECU?
http://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mazda-Rx7-Fd-Twin-Turbo-Polished-Exhaust-Down-pipe-And-Gasket-/141940946848?nav=SEARCH
Certainly cheap enough and it comes with an expensive gasket, and yes it should help flow
Thanks Clive
Probably won't fit though as there doesn't appear to be allowance for the steering. Prob a LHD dp from what I can see in the pics, Rhd dp has a crushed section for the steering joint .
Ah right cheers buddy will ask him the question
Don't even bother mate it won't fit, as memski posted above. That's certainly a lhd version and wont clear the steering rack. The rhd model has a quite significant flattening toward the manifold side.
Cheers buddy asked him if it was for RHD and he said yeah it is, I then asked about the notch/flat spot for the steering and could he send pics if it did to which he said it didn't have one, so contacted eBay and retracted my bid so thank you chaps saved me some money on that one lol
Whoops, sorry Dax, forgot about that :-[, thank you Neil and memski
Sold lots of the HKS downpipes over the years and forgot about the dent to clear the steering rod
Lol no bother Clive ha ha, just wondering tho how much do the hks ones retail at?
Sorry for the delay getting back to you, here we go, here's a link for a new HKS down pipe.
http://www.racingbeateurope.com/bhks-front-pipe-for-rx-7-fdb-751-p.asp
Chaps quick question been looking at the Apexi FC'S with commanders and there are to revisions of the commander (or so it seems) the fcc3 and fcc4 apart from the OLED screen which does look a whole lot better is there any advantage to the fcc4? Or do they do exactly the same thing?
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You gotta get right apexi for right year. 92 to 95 and 2 more models for following years.
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Yeah I think mine is the fd3s4 but there are two commanders which you can get with that model and I just wondered if there was a different apart from screen/display quality as there seems to be massive price difference between the fcc3 and fcc4
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No mate the only real difference is the oled screen, but go for that one as it makes a huge difference actually being able to see the figures. The old Lcd green screens are a nightmare to see
Nice one what sort of price would you think I should be paying for one?
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Not to sure a 92 to 95 apexi fc with commander tends to 400 to 500...i think the 99 onwards had the option of the better screen.
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Lol . Neil beat me to it and has the answer. So the commander with better screen works on a 92 to 95 apexi?
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Well I have seen them for sale together so I asume they do from what I have read you have to match your fcc3 to the correct ecu year model but the later fcc4 is universal just couldn't find any write up on differences between the two apart from screen. somebody correct me if any of that's wrong
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Yeah they work together fine, I bought my oled commander for £200.
More questions on mods lol, I have the chance of a 3in downpipe and a 3in decat. So the questions are about boost creep, I have read different things from different places and people so here are some of the things I have read that have confused me.
That I must have a boost controller to stop boost creep from happening? but I have also read that this does not stop it from happening as boost creep is caused by the watesgate not being able to cope with pushing the exhaust gases away from the turbo's so to stop it I need to modify the wastegate (port the opening)?
Final thing I am still running stock ECU at the mo, which I have also read has a boost limiter of 10psi by the vac pill and the wastgate control solenoid, is this right? If so should I be ok to fit them for now or should I hold off until I get the apexi (which is next on the mod list), and then do I still need a boost controller lol and would the base map be safe till I get the bugger mapped?
I know I am going on a lot in this about something that is simple I guess, but in the turbo motors I have had before this has not been an issue lol
Hi mate, i explain it how i know it and keep it simple and others may chime in if im incorrect.
from personal experience. id fit the mods all in 1 go along with the apexi and then get tuned ( remap straight away).
The boost control system is a dumb open loop.....the factory set up knows the flow rates through the turbos down pipe and exhaust system and the wastgate that opens to divert exhuast gases away from the turbos to limit boost are dumbly cycled on/off at a fast rate to control boost....if you remove a restriction ie downpipe then there is more flow on the exhaust side and the car makes more boost and the duty cycle does not change as the ecu cannot do this itself using the sensors...hence the apexi and remap that can put more fuel in for the the greater air (boost) entering the engine and increase the duty cycle of the wastegate.
In addition even with this all mods apexi mapped the wastgegate area is small and this has to flow a huge amount of exhaust gases through a tiny opening....by porting the wastegate the area in and around the port is opened up greatly to allow more gas flow...to go through the wastgate and not through the exhaust turbine that makes boost creep. its effectively a bottle neck and cant wastgate properly as was assisted by the standard exhaust back pressure.
i think 14 psi is the about the max the stock twin can take....for piece of mind id gather all the mods and fit, fit an apexi and get to a tuner without any boost experiements.
The pils are part of the standard set up and need to be retained but a boost controller is not required but safe tune is.
Id speak to your chosen tuner and discuss the mods and what you are aiming for.
As John said my advice is the same, take your parts to whoever is gonna map your car to fit the exhaust bits and apexi and map it all at once.
The dp and decat on a standard ecu has been the death of many many 13bs. The increased exhaust flow allows more boost in and the ecu is just to slow to compensate.
Also the apexi boost control is fine so a separate boost controller isn't required, I'm still using the apexi controlling the standard solenoid now at 17 psi.
Thanks Jon and Neil for the advice and I guess I better play it safe and collect all the mods i want and get them fitted and mapped at the same time looks like I will be just running as is till after the summer then as all the tuners are about 300 miles from here and I won't get a chance till then.
The big problem with that is I am a massive big kid and when I get new toys I just want to play with them it's going to kill me waiting lol. Anyway just need an aftermarket intercooler now then so once I get the apexi I will be happy ish for a while at least lol
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Quote from: Dax on May 03, 2016, 11:49:57 PM
Thanks Jon and Neil for the advice and I guess I better play it safe and collect all the mods i want and get them fitted and mapped at the same time looks like I will be just running as is till after the summer then as all the tuners are about 300 miles from here and I won't get a chance till then.
The big problem with that is I am a massive big kid and when I get new toys I just want to play with them it's going to kill me waiting lol. Anyway just need an aftermarket intercooler now then so once I get the apexi I will be happy ish for a while at least lol
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Haha aren't we all, I know exactly how you feel as I look at my KKK single turbo sitting in the garage. Will be worth the wait though.