Mazda Rotary Club

I somehow have managed to purchase a wide bodied rear wheel drive ford ka body shell (I am never again going on to ebay late at night) And yes you have guessed it. I also own an 04 231 rx8 which is my donor vehicle. The engine is fitted and exhaust etc, but now I have to look about wiring. This car is going to be used as a rallycross car so no need for creature comforts etc. I had been thinking of running something like an omex ecu as I have experience with these in a mazda mx5 I used to have but I think I will struggle to control everything I need with the current omex available. Anyone any suggestions on an ecu set up that is suited to an RX8. I plan to eventually turbo this but probably with an RX7 plant at a later date. Any help much appreciated.

First up, welcome to Mazdarotaryclub  :welcome:

Good to talk to you earlier and I look forward to seeing your new toy, also it would be great to see some pictures of the other guys cars who has the 4WD Rotary and a tripple

Our resident electrician will be along shortly to help if you need it; Jon, Jon, come on, don't be shy  ;).   

I know its Rallycross your into but here's a couple of pictures of the car I told you about

Hi mate.
Best option is to use the rx8 ecu. It will do everything you need. Ive successfully cut a car loom down removing abs tc.instrument cluster etc and left with just the ecu and relay box. Car utilises key start with immboliser.
Your donor has everything you need . And this way the electronic throttle and omp will work. The electrical drawings are here under rx8 technical. Ive retained the obd port for diag.
I can assist you if required as i have the drawings from my conversion.

Aah fellow rallycrosser!

So, you plan is, keep it N/A and rwd?

Dunno about electric and ecu stuff but Jon(Boosted) is the man

Jon, did you say something like for ecu to work it needs throttle pedal and steering wheel and some other components...? Can you make ecu work without them?

Yes you need throttle pedal. But not steering wheel. No traction control. No abs . No.airbags. No ac. No. Ew. No. Cl...just the engine being controlled....i retained the rx8 relay box for the indicators.
The mx5 i helped the abs was retained.
Need key. Kas. Coil and antenna. And ecu. Throttle pedal. Fuel pot main relay box. Rest snippety snip.

Yes, I would love to see some pics from you project. :)

Did Clive said something about 4wd rotary and triple?

Hi Jon,

Looks like Richard will go with the Adaptronic which amongst other things this would let him have programmable traction control hopefully just wired in via the ABS sensors etc.

Richard has dumped the OMP due to exhaust fitting reasons so I am thinking he will be better with the hard wired Adaptronic version taking the stock ECU out of the equation but this would still let the fly by wire RX-8 throttle body operate initially with the RX-8  engine then later with the T11 engine when MORE power is asked for.

It it can be kept out of limp mode without the OMP then it may be better to stick with the piggy back Adaptronic,

It will be interesting to see what you think  Jon. 

Can he run Sohn adaptor?

Hmm, our rules wont allow fly by wire. And I think that this rule is universal  because of safety reasons...

Traction control? What group/class is that? Also, abs arent alloved here...

But if plann is to swao different engine to it later, I would choose aftermarket ecu too...

If its standalone then yes not sure about the omp though....adaptronic will need to be asked. As your aware its part of the start up checks on a standard pcm. If its not required by the standalone adaptronic then happy days.

Stand alone should be fine Jon.

Hi Japi,

The ABS wheel sensors would only be kept in place to give the ECU a signal to operate the traction control.

Wouldn't have thoght the ABS could work on real slippery stuff anyway as the wheels have to see some grip to make it kick in  :D

Dunno about rules there but I would imagine that abs and traction control is not alloved...

And dunno anything about Rennys ecu or any ecus :)

But I need pics and info about that car, this waiting is killing me :D

Thanks for the comments. I don't want to run abs but as each wheel has a wheels speed sensor or abs sensor I feel no reason why I cant make use of it at a sprint or hillclimb as this is probably where I am going to use the car most.
My main aim was to strip as much as possible out of the car in relation to electrics and I am even going as far as to hopefully remove the power steering rack and fit a non power rack. What I need is a fools manual on how to sort the wiring. If the standard loom will work then that will save me a lot of expense but I seem to get the impression that it will hold me back if I want to go turbo'd in the future.

Im getting confused here.
so RX8 engine conversion then turbo it or go FC t2 engine?

Hi my plan is to get this project up and running as cheaply as possible as it may not work. We are building a ford ka with mazda rx8 suspension and engine. If it is successful, and I need more power then the plan is either to run a turbo at low boost on the current engine or try and locate an rx7 turbo engine.

ok then makes sense togo with the standalone adaptronic then so you can go turbo later on.

You just need to clarify that omp removal will not cause limp on the adaptronic standalone...it certainly will using a mazda ecu (pcm). It has been know that people keep the omp and the omp switch mounted off the engine so that it does it start up cycle and the ecu is happy but its not actually putting oil in.

The hard wire version will dump the stock ECU so it won't look for an OMP

Hold your horses there Gents :)

Lately many engine builders have done pretty good results with turboing Rennys, including Aston. If the plan is to go cheap as possible, then Renny ecu could work. However, I dont know what ecu Aston is using in his project... But if Richard uses as much as he can his RX-8 components, then there is good reason to use ecu too. And later he can put low comp rotors inside if he wants... I have heard that they can get about 300kw at wheels using low comp rotors and turbo in Renny...

Because swapping another motor in when he needs power more, is kind of pointless in my opinion...

At this stage I still have the omp pump, but when I am rebuilding the engine I will be removing the shaft that drives the pump and fitting a plate. So if the omp still needs to be plugged in this can be done, but stored away from the engine. With the setup I hope to run, I have limited room in the engine bay and weight is very important. So looks like a hardwired adaptronic seems to be the way. So Clive need your help!!!. As regards the turbo end of things and I could be wrong but surely a well built rx8 engine with decent porting should be capable of 250ish hp. This would be quite good provided I have a bit of Torque. If I then turbo it but run around 7psi of boost this should give me around another 50hp. so 300hp and less than 850kg, all I would need is someone to drive it. Are my figures feasible or have I been inhaling exhaust fumes again

Here we go,

This will give you and Jon all the info you need.

http://www.adaptronic.com.au/wp/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/WiringDiagram_e420d.pdf

Soz ill look in a day or 2. Had an op 2 weeks ago and was feeling great start of week.  seems ive now got an infection. Darn it.

Aah crap. :/ get well soon

Im burning up....and fell like death warmed up off to docs tomoz!

Oh btw, I made Rallycross Finland community and Rallycross Finland closed group some time ago. Please check, join and support us :)

https://www.facebook.com/Rallicross-Finland-1629706597308751/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/866029886823012/

Thanks :)

Back feeling okish ...finished off my op recovery with a kidney infection...not nice. Massive dose of antibiotics over last 24hrs seems to have got me out of bed today. Had a look at drawings everything seems straight forward splicing rx8 loom onto the adaptronic harness...only issue i see is only 4 injector drivers. Can the aux outputs be assigned as extra injectors Clive?
Ideally i think you need to decided when you go turbo which engine you are going to use. If your going to turbo the renny then id still use mazda pcm and use the piggy back adaptronic. If your gonna go fc turbo2 then stand alone.
Steering rack...i presume is for the ford ka...rally designs do mk2 escort manual rack various turns ratio at great prices...they take a beating to.
Hope that helps.

Yes, I agree. I think it has to be desided now what turbo engine is going to be used. Because, ecu are quite expensive...

And my opinion is that turboing Renny would be best option at this point. I bet Aston would give some tips to do it...

IMO for a turbo fit you're best going with an Adaptronic, but whether the RX8 PNP or the hard-wired version is a question with many differing views.  They're not cheap at over £1,000, so the budget option is to get an Apexi PFC second-hand.

Having struggled with finding enough space in the right places for a single-turbo 13B REW in an RX8, albeit partly as I'm being a perfectionist over aerodynamic efficiency, I leave it to you to decide whether there is enough space in a KA's engine bay for a turbo and hence what flexibility you need in a controller.

As to whether to turbo the RX8's Renesis or fit a 13B REW, IMO there are clear differences: the Renesis doesn't take turbocharging well, producing lower power and reliability than a 13B REW, but the process is easier and cheaper than transplanting a 13B REW.

I'm starting to look in depth at how to get an Adaptronic controlling a single-turbo 13B REW in an RX8 (I'm redoing a 13B REW swap that came with an RX7 FD cable-operated throttle body and an Apexi PFC).  So far I've been finding far more questions than answers. Clive has done the swap and says that the Adaptronic isn't a simple plug-and-play, preferring a hard-wire to the RX8 PNP, and no doubt he will continue to give you the benefit of his advice. A few guys in the US have used one on a 13B REW swap (or at least claim to have used one with all the functions operating) and I'm trying to get a write-up from one of them.  Clive's wiring diagram is useful, albeit IMO wiring is an easy battle compared to getting all the parameters set up correctly.  The Adaptronic web site has been down for a while, which is hampering me.