I think i know the answer to this but what else can cause excessive smokey exhaust.
Its not a sweet smoke from water leak but a dirty smelling one and theres oil in the downpipe. Fitted new turbo and dp was cleaned so definitely oil burn.
I originally thought was bearings gone in turbo so turbo was rebuilt. still had oil and smokey so thought bad turbo and bought new one (borg warner). and still have this problem.
Only other thing i can think of is its coming from the engine. So does this mean its the oil control ring?
engine 2 years old, only ran 500 mile run-in. been sat for a year as smoke happened last year but i didnt have time to do anything with it.
i\'m guessing this means another rebuild engine? :(
http://youtu.be/1MCf7r_oujM
Hope this makes sense, is it smelly or fumey, if it\'s fumey it could be excesses fuel ?
Looks like fuel smoke, does it sting your eyes?
Did the smoke start after the car was hot, could be oil left in the exhaust if it was burning oil before?
Hard to describe it. Smelt smokey? Didn\'t sting the eyes from memory. Not really a strong smell of anything.
Fuel is about 38 (psi think the units was) when running.
I thought might be oil in exhaust but after giving the dp a clean it\'s still had oil after starting.
The smoke kicks in after about 10 second of starting the engine.
Past info. Car was running fine before after rebuild. Ran for about 500 miles under 3k rpm and no boost. One day I go for a drive and then it suddenly smokes like vid. After this happened, I took off the dp and that was covered in oil. Thought turbo blown, had turbo rebuilt, started her up and still same problem with lots of oil in turbo. Thought dead turbo and bought new turbo. Fitted and still same smokey.
If it is excessive fuel then how to resolve? New plugs? Turn down fuel pressure? Stronger coils?
Running OEM coils and magnecore leads which I bought from Clive :Thumbsup!
Won\'t be a plug, coil, lead issue
Is this the modded car with an aftermarket ECU, if so has it been remapped after the engine and turbo change
I was thinking maybe something to do with the map but was OK before.
Map wise, it was fully mapped on large ported engine with t04e. Then that engine have way after mapping. Then replaced engine with stock port rebuilt engine on same map and slightly larger turbo.
That ran fine for 500 miles which brings us to now.
If it was fuel, i would think it would be running rough, what is your breather system like? Although I doubt it would cause that much pressure to make the car smoke without some boost pressure if it was blocked.
Has the oil level dropped?
Breather system, as in charcoal canister?
I\'ll have a check tomorrow and possibly empty it?
Oil is pretty much same. Was mid level before problem and about same now after its been running trying to burn off the excessive oil I thought was in exhaust.
It sounds fine running.
Sorry I meant crankcase breather off the filler neck
The hose off the oil fillet neck is plugged into the centre iron.
Took the oil cap off and started car but still same smokey.
The mechanic where the car is at said it\'s a slight blue tint to the smoke. Definitely oil caused. Engine sounds healthy and smoke start few seconds after car turns over.
Just a shot in the dark.....are you premixing? Too much wrong type of premix oil?
Thanks for the idea, no pre mix though. :)
May be worth having a look at the plugs, to see if oil is burning in the engine
Ok will do thanks JayDee!
Anything else to check?
car is away at storage so wont be able to check unto sat but trying to get any more info to check all in one go.
Last week when i looked (after the car didnt start due to fuel pump wiring) the plugs looked ok and not covered in oil.
What signs should i look for in the plugs?
Plugs covered about 1500 from memory.
appreciate the help greatly!
The plugs would have deposits on it if burning oil.
If you search the net, there will be pics to show you how they would look.
Have you let the car run for a while it could be just old oil in the rest of the exhaust that needs to turn off, this would need about 15 to 20 mins of driving to do, especially if oil is in the silencers.
Is your oil drain down hill all the way from the bottom of the turbo to the front of the engine? I had smoking issues when there was a section that was a little too level, and the oil couldn\'t drain away properly. The turbo\'s seals can\'t deal with the excessive oil pooling and will let it by. There\'s a couple of threads about this over on rx7club as well, which is where I found the info.
Quote from: L18M;882593The hose off the oil fillet neck is plugged into the centre iron.
Took the oil cap off and started car but still same smokey.
The mechanic where the car is at said it\'s a slight blue tint to the smoke. Definitely oil caused. Engine sounds healthy and smoke start few seconds after car turns over.
Those 2 positions are on the same oil neck pipe - just different locations, so you aren\'t venting crank case emissions to anywhere, In the stock pipework, the top hose on the oil neck is tee\'d with the fuel vapour coming from the charcoal canister and fed back into the intake via a 1 way valve.
The lower nipple on the centre iron goes to the purge control valve, and during certain rev range it\'s vented into a nipple on the throttle body, again effectively allowing it to be burnt in the engine.
Jaydee: there was a small hole in my do where a new flange was welded on and once engine running, the hole was leaking smoke and some sticky substance onto the exhaust manifold which indicates there something more than just unburnt oil stuck in the exhaust boxes?
Prof: I remember you mention about oil drain in past. The new turbo is slightly higher position than previous turbo bit will double check that and see if I can create more of an angle to the oil drain.
Kinda understand the lines. Is the one way valve within the charcoal canister?
Fed into intake? Which nipple would the intake be?
How many nipples has the centre iron got? I only noticed the one on top where the line from filler neck was plugged in.
Purge control valve, where would that be located roughly?
I\'ll double check in my Haynes manual and try find it.
:)
Here you go :
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=47624&d=1275136156
The 2 nipples on the oil filler neck, one just under where the cap goes, and the other is actually on the centre iron - but they both are effectively on the same pipe ;-)
Light blue and brown lines on the diagram.
The routing around all the solenoids is a bit confusing. The one way valve on the stock car setup is actually on the end of the hose that plugs into the intake elbow - small round metal cylinder thingy (diagram is cut off on the left but shows it as "K valve way")
On the stock engine, the Purge valve sits underneath the intercooler, black device about 2" round with 3 nipples - fragile as feck and usually breaks.
That\'s great thanks Dave!
I dont recall seeing a round 2" thing with 3 nipples around the engine bay :(
I haven\'t even noticed the solenoid valves unless thye hiden under the UIM.
Theres 2 lines from the PCV going into the UIM. I thought the 3 nipples in the UIM were effectively the same line?
Depending on the version of car, the throttle body has 7 or 8 nipples, but they aren\'t all the same - some see the one side of the throttle plates and some the other, so basically you need to work out which is which - I did put a thread up on here about it, but you can sort of work out what lines do what by what\'s plugged into them.
What this means is that some lines will hold a vacuum if the throttle is shut, and some are just fed into the intake and will see the same air pressure as the engine if the throttle is open - these lines could have positive pressure on them as they are post turbo, and it\'s for that reason that some of the returns into the induction go upstream of the turbo as there is no pressure there (such as the vapour return from charcoal canister), as you don\'t want to be blowing anything back into the fuel tank!
If you\'re engine is fairly modified, then most of those solenoids are probably gone. I doubt you are using the stock boost solenoid, and the emissions ones are probably gone - so you are only likely to have the PRC solenoid - for the fuel pressure adjustment on warm start, but even that can be eliminated if you don\'t mind feathering the throttle for the 30 seconds that solenoid would be active on a warm start.
If you go back to the diagram - solenoids 1 and 3 are for emissions and work with the air control valve - if that is gone so are they. That just leaves the PRC solenoid for the fuel pressure regulation - that\'s number 2 on the diagram - only active for 30 seconds after a warm start and basically lets the FPR see atmospheric pressure rather than the idle vacuum pressure. If your FPR takes it\'s vac line directly from the manifold, then you aren\'t using this :-)
If you can post some pics up, showing throttle body nipples, oil filler neck area and the area near the UIM from the drivers side view, and also the vac line plumbing from your FPR.
wow. didnt realise there would be so much difference!
ok seems like i\'ve lost 1 and 3 then.
Not sure about 2. Vac line on fpr was taken from TB / UIM
I\'ll try get some pics on sat when i go to the garage to have a poke around.
Would the vac lines issues cause smokey?
anyone tell me where the "oil injector air bleed" the 3 or 4 lines that come off that circular disk, where are they meant to lead to?
This is the so called "spider" - the largest bore hose at the top of the spider should go to the largest nipple on the back of the throttle body, the 4 smaller lines are all different sizes - and go to the injector air bleeds - you can really only lay them out one way or one of the lines won\'t reach ;-)
Ok, had a play around today and after talking to few other people. I think i found the problem. Too much oil going to the turbo.
Its a borg warner s300 tub (new) with a -4 an oil feed. read on many forums -3 or -4 an is ok but seems this is too much on a rotary engine. Not sure how much the oil press differes from rotary or piston (namely supra forums i read they use -4, even fd\'s un the states run -4).
I took off the oil feed to the tub and stuck it down the oil filler neck to stop oil going to tub (not ideal as afraid of starving the tub of oil but risked it to try reduce the possibilities) and started car. some smoke (left over oil in tub from leaking bearings) and it smoked bit more on warmup then if blip the throttle more smoke (burning off residual oil) blue ish tint.
So ordered a 1mm restrictor from OZ and will try that and try burn off the residual oil and hopefully stop smoking but much better / less smoke with this trial method.
thing looking up :)
Vac lines ok though still need to do little more to tidy up a bit :)
Thanks for all the help guys :)
You have no idea how much im still earning :)