made a little progress on the death sled yesters, and was just wondering the best sort of configuration to set the tubes ive got onto the flange. In terms of best performance / flow whats the best . I have sketched two setups , what one is better ( or hardly any difference ) Its only a small garret turbo , not sure which one .
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As you can see space is somewhat of a commodity.... may have to section away a bit of the bulkhead to get the exhaust out down the side of the box if im to use the reccommended 3" size pipe .
I had to add an extra u/j in the steering to get me the few extra cm\'s to run a better tubing route from the block , none of it is fully welded in yet etc , the bracked holding the rose joint is just tacked on till im 100% happy with it nor is the small bit of steering rod i had turned down the bridge the gap between the 2 u/j\'s
ive read somewhere thats its not a good idea to heat wrap stainless steel as it promotes cracking/fatigue? If so i guess i better form some sort of heat shield , around the u/j area and in between the l.i.m to reflect heat away from the charged side. Will be re routing brake pipes too just in case anyone was thinking that lol
Any input no matter how small , even if you peeps think ive overlooked anything etc is appreciated
Pete you need to wrap the uj with good exhaust tape
Also if you are starting from scratch and don\'t have the Turbo yet, why not come up and forward and fit a real good Turbo like a GT35 as you will only get a baby like the Greddy kit has to sit down below.
Good to see your on some good thick wall tube
whats the id on that bend? looks a healthy diameter.
so is the new tub not twin scroll? in all honesty i would run 2 branches in parallel to the turbo flange, in your case thats probably not gonna work due to the diameter?
i would make a y piece from the flange into a single tube. if you have 2 90\'s from the block flange leaning towards each other keeping the length equal. if that makes any sense at all lol.
thats what im planning to do. i have a holset from a mate but its massive, im thinking of locating it forward of the brake servo by the shock turret
internal diameter is about 54mm and its 3mm thick. I already have a garret turbo which the original owner fitted ( it was an akward setup ran forward, then across the front crank pulley and out through the front bumper via a cereal packet sized home brew silencer ) , when it was on and i got it running right it was plenty quick enough but tbh as it was only on base map i didnt go past 4.5k . It may run out of chuff to early in the rev range ...
kinda get what you mean shifty :-) no its not a twin scroll, im guessing as these motors devour exhaust gases thats the best type of blower to use? ( can see more expense coming... ) i plan on putting the turbo in the area where the a/c compressor was sitting tio give me the best post turbo exh route to go down bulkhead and past primary tubes
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Here\'s what I did for my manifold. All you need to do to make it fit for you is use a 90* upwards:) don\'t worry about running a divided manifold, it makes it harder to fabricate WG pipes
I have one massive 60mm Tial WG on my manifold
they mandrel bends? look like 1.5mm wall? tidy set up there. i had not considered having the tub there... hmmmm
is there any drawback from over specing the wastegate? ie. if i run a small turbo now but run a 50mm gate for future tuning are there any issues it could throw up?
grant, where your wastegate is situated is where i\'d need to have the exhaust side of the blower facing and run parallel and above the primary pipes , i dont have the outward space to make the pipes run from the block flange out adjacent to each other . my car is only 1.5m wide ! ( think that was the jap k-class rules )
im interested how that setup works even on an fd, the exh side os facing the o/s/f wheel / chassis right?
Quote from: nc30pete;876908im interested how that setup works even on an fd, the exh side os facing the o/s/f wheel / chassis right?
It\'s not for an fd, it\'s for an rx4:D partly mounted that way for looks, but for spacing and to fit über loud side exit exhaust for santa pod:Thumbsup!:evillaugh:evillaugh
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Mounted just like that:)
Quote from: shifty biscuits;876904is there any drawback from over specing the wastegate? ie. if i run a small turbo now but run a 50mm gate for future tuning are there any issues it could throw up?
No AFAIK, they all work the same. Bigger is better IMO,
thats how my original setup ran except hot / cold side vice versa
Quote from: nc30pete;876907grant, where your wastegate is situated is where i\'d need to have the exhaust side of the blower facing and run parallel and above the primary pipes , i dont have the outward space to make the pipes run from the block flange out adjacent to each other . my car is only 1.5m wide ! ( think that was the jap k-class rules )
If you turn the manifold up 90 degrees and mount the turbo conventionally then you can place the WG ina different position, I put mine there to access it easily and because it looks to great to hide away under the car and get covered in crap off the road:)
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where i plan to mount the turby, a fraction further forward by bout 30-50mm
gives you an idea of my lack of space with the micro machine :)
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original setup
The best way too make the manifold is to just get the turbo where you can:) and take the pipes too it. Don\'t bother with equal length runners Etc because you could end up creating extra length and heat in there that you just don\'t need. Get the gasses out and too the turbo, through the turbo and out into the face of the people behind:D
If you want too run huge boost then WG placement can be critical, so can runner length but I doubt you will want more than 1 bar?
What car is it?????
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;876928If you turn the manifold up 90 degrees and mount the turbo conventionally then you can place the WG ina different position, I put mine there to access it easily and because it looks to great to hide away under the car and get covered in crap off the road:)
prob is is the pipes from the flange stick out too far in that configuration
pardon my poor sketches but i hope this kinda shows what im getting at. Then again i could be totally misinterpreting what you are trying to get across to me :3Confused
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a suzuki cappuccino , a roller skate on wheels :-)
Haha brilliant!! that should bean entertaining drive.
Drawn up same as you but a bit clearer. Try and use as little bends as possible to help keep it simple
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You will need 2 x 90 bends and 1 x 45 bend and some straight at what ever length you require. You will also need too adapt/squash/make a flange where the 2 go into one the 1 x 90 bend in larger diameter up too you turbo flange
Exactly what you had drawn really, best thing to do is to make it the easiest way possible and what fits. Your WG position will be good too and in a half decent accessible position
Thanks grant, that\'s the sort of explanation I was hoping for , I already have x2 90deg bends and x1 45deg funnily enough, they are 2" ( 54mm I/d) and 3 mm thick wall, think I\'m going to have trouble sourcing stainless straight tube in this format..
Due to the size restriction the runners all be short anyway , I\'m just trying to make it a nice run out from the flange , the old setup was so compromised by the steering dissecting the front rotors path. I\'ll take few pics of the old steel one and show you how awkward straight from the flange it was!
I did find a place that does 3mm thick stuff but they only sold 5 metre lengths!! Haha as it used for gas/oil/fuel piping, but I was going to go to their ore misuses and ask for a cut off from scrap pile;)
2" is a good size, generally people say keep it the same size as the exhaust port outlet. Some people have used smaller size piping too help promote earlier spool but EGT were effected. Bit of a trade off really
So you saying if I run this 2inch tubing from manifold up to the turbo I could run 2inch post turbo? That smaller size would definitely help routing past the bulkhead as the 3" I was contemplating on using
No if your turbo has a 3" outlet then use 3":) what you can do with that down pipe is squash it in tight area as the internal volume will remain the same :thumbsup! In around those tight areas such as the the steering column.
2" is a good size for the runners out of the engine, you will need something larger for where you join the 2 together unless your wanting to run the 2 runners straight into the turbo flange? Either way will work fine
Deleted, poxy phone didn\'t update page properly and I didn\'t think last post posted up
Well the turbo is internally waste gated , either was going to do that sealed shut mod or chap at rotary shop in portsmouth said as it\'s a new garret blower to save money you could send off the turbo and ask for a different exhaust housing which doesn\'t have waste gate incorporation ? How compatible are exh housings ? If I could find a dead owner on evilbay for example and use the exh housing that would be a cheap way but I have little knowledge on blowers so I\'m sure I\'d buy lots of lemons before getting it right making it costly!
Oh while I\'m here, thankyou one and all for your help and input so far, just in 24hrs you\'ve helped tremendously in terms of enthusiasm & direction ;-)
You should be able to get a none internal WG turbine housing, just have to ring up an tell what turbo you have and they can give you options, they will also do different ARs too
splendid. I just popped into my mate at the fab shop and he just dug me out two sections of same wall thickness straight stainless tube for me, one length bout 300mm and the other bout 500mm so should be all i need there, apart from making the bigger bit where the two primary pipes come together. My mate monkey is magic at this stuff, made me loads of odds n sods, never excepts any dinero so i always give him beer or turn up with some good chow. Or when his old tank merc breaks i pay the favour back properly
reputable turbo specialists is my next port of call then - any reccommendations?
If it\'s a garret turbo then Owens turbos, if it\'s a Borgwarber then AET, there are others. Just have a google for you:)
Universal turbos iv also heard of, many people have recommended them too
I use AET Turbos as they\'re local too me, 30 mins drive from huddersfiled:)
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Me extra tubes, wasn\'t far off in estimations, 270 mm and 480mm!
Verrrry verrrry nice
Grant, that pic with that gargantuan turbo setup you used on the rx4, what steel is that? Can you buy those custom flanges/ plates anywhere in the uk? Think my one may let the rest of the materials down in terms of quality
The engine flange is mild steel and I bought it from the US, if I was too make another I would use stainless flanges as a friend of mine could get them water jetted for me but dunno how long it would take.
You may want to try DM motorsport, they do all sorts of stuff like that, just ring up and speak to Danny and see what he can do for you
Gargantuan is great BTW:) but my turbos not that big, kinda wished I had got the bigger size up tbh
I was having a read then i read what car is it? then i read Suzuki Cappuccino!!! Jesus! that\'s gonna be a wild ride ! Need something a little stronger than coffee to stop the hands shaking after a drive in that! Cappuccino with a double shot of Navy Rum init!
yea it was fun for the 1 week i had it on the road , rear diff was waaay too low so power transfer was even more wild! especially as it orginally ran 13\' rims with teeny 195 tyres. I was breaking traction up to 3rd in the dry and i never took it past 4.5k as it was only on base map .
Grant - Thought i read somewhere that mild steel is probably better for flange anyway as stainless flanges can distort easier? If that is true the rotary engines would certainly show this up . Thanks for the contact , ill have a butchers :-) once again peeps, thankyou for the input
A flange that is half an inch thick wouldn\'t warp, if it did your engine would be doing something seriously wrong:eek
I have got a spare twin entry stanless steel T4 turbo flange BTW if you need one? You could just cut out the centre section and use it as a single entry T4 turbo flange. Think it cost me £20:);)
That\'s enough for me , you can read too much sometimes on Ze net and you can fall short if it isn\'t gospel . I had a look yesters on your rx4 build - very nice bud indeed. Think I\'m ok for the moment on t4 flange . Think mines a t3 anyway but if I change the exh housing I\'ll prob be a tapping on your door ....
hey peeps, bit of slow progress lately, i could do with a bit of turbo advice please - basically i have sussed out what my turbo is, the part numbers trace to an 02-07 bentley turbo arnage.... i mean come on, of all the turbos the previous owner bought for it!!! anyway from what i understand its part of a tb0303 series , numbers are pf100647pf - 713333-3 - 1A12235B .
The bit i am not sure about is the chances of being able to get a exhaust turbine housing suitable for it in T4 guise, I phoned one turbo company up ( one of the recommendations on here ) and he didnt even want to get as far as these numbers i quoted to try and advise me on a housing. He wants to see the blower . Luckily they are in hants so i probably will make a visit but before i do this i just thought i\'d post up here.
Ive got a funny feeling due to the odd turbo they are going to say im better off starting from scratch, which then leads me to possibly new turbo advice. What would you peeps recommend ? I dont want a large blower as its just not needed in the size n weight of my death sled but at the same time am i going to be able to find a small enough turbo for my engine as these rotary lumps breathe a lot more exh gas compared to normal piston engines?? Is it just going to be a case of buying a bigger turbo and run low boost?
I want it to be usable power , not mid corner catherine wheel syndrome on track days!
Sorry if i didnt explain this clear enough or waffled on too much, im not up on turbo jargon - go easy on me ...