Mazda Rotary Club

Cars by Model Type => Cosmo's and Other Rotary Powered Vehicles => Topic started by: re japi on December 06, 2013, 01:45:10 PM

Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on December 06, 2013, 01:45:10 PM
Ok, here we go!

Since RS10, Steve´s and Clive´s cars has been haunting me, I just cant get those of my mind!

I desided that I want to do old school car. I have been looking for good old Mazda for swap a rotary on it. Seems to be impossible, rotten or to expensive.

So, I started to look other manufacturers cars. Have found few good ones, but had no luck with them...

Well, today I took one step closer to get my dream car...

I HAVE ROTARY!!!! :Santa
I knicked my brothers FB´s engine, gearbox, diff and other stuff :) Ok,I will pay them...

Second step is to find a good car...
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on December 06, 2013, 01:56:54 PM
RWD escort.
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: shaunwil on December 06, 2013, 04:48:20 PM
Mk1 mx5 !

Shaun
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on December 06, 2013, 05:10:01 PM
It seems that Escort might be only option. :/ Unfortunatly, I dont like them. Good thing is that I have lots of friends in Ford scene...

Mx-5 are rare and expensive here. And it cant be done because of our laws.
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: boosted on December 06, 2013, 05:15:32 PM
Kit car!!!!!! westfield or caterham or locust.....! excellent power to wieght!
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on December 06, 2013, 05:24:28 PM
We dont have those either. Well, we do have few, but they are very expensive. And again, Laws and Mot man will say no no...
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on December 06, 2013, 05:25:56 PM
This would be awesome!

http://www.nettivaraosa.com/kunnostettavat-ajoneuvot/1689714
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: boosted on December 06, 2013, 09:54:03 PM
Yeah looks cool old skool cool!
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on December 06, 2013, 10:32:43 PM
Definately. Forgot about the old datsuns!! Cool as hell.
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on December 07, 2013, 07:39:51 PM
I have been sending messages with that guy who is selling Bluebird. Actually it seems to be quite solid body. I wonder if thats true. I hope so ;)

Also, I have been checking my engine. Turns well, makes a nice pssst sound.
What condition the waterpump is, I think I have to take it apart?
Can apex seal be stuck? Im not sure but front rotors one apex seal looks funny...
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: boosted on December 08, 2013, 11:24:05 AM
I did a google translate to english on the datsun! It made no sense LOL !
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on December 08, 2013, 02:53:43 PM
LMAO Ya, they usually dont make any sense. Few days ago, me and bro google translated thai to finnish. We were laughing so hard that basically forgot what we were doing. Actually, we were checking rotary scene at Thailand. Btw, they have awesome rotarys there:)
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on December 12, 2013, 03:45:00 AM
Got my copy of Street Rotary by Mark Warner. Time to study ;) Big thanks to Clive

Still looking good body for 12a... :/
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on December 12, 2013, 08:20:27 AM
Got that book. It\'s a good read. Helps more understand of the rotary.
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on December 15, 2013, 09:56:41 PM
Can you get kp60 Toyota starlets?? I want one of those for my next project!!
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on December 16, 2013, 06:58:03 AM
Ya, that book is awesome! :)

We do have lots of Starlets. They use lots of them in rallys and rallysprints. But I think that it is not streetlegal with 12a in it.

It has to be under 1978 built car, power and displacement cant go higher than 20% of original biggest version of that series...
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on December 16, 2013, 07:48:58 AM
12As are only 1.2 litres.:)

They\'re rare and quite expensive over here but would definately be street legal
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on December 21, 2013, 04:57:15 PM
Grant, Yes they are but I think that conversion is illegal here...

Well, I started my holidays today. Now I have bear in my hand. :Thumbsup! Time to do cars. Plan is to get my toy Nissan Sunny ready and to continue doing 12A restoration. I have allready painted gearbox and some mounts. Alternator is in parts too.

Also, Ill try to help my brother as much as I can. He has done some metal work. Transmission tunnel is almost ready. I think he has dropped engine and gearbox off, so he can finish it. Alltough his back is killing him, he had done good progress, that stubborn :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:... ;)

This year has been amazing for me. Hopefully I can see you all next year!
Merry X-mas to all rotorheads!!! :Santa
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on December 21, 2013, 07:14:02 PM
Me and brother have been talking about effect of intake, manifold and so on in N/A engines.

Just few days ago I heard that well known tuner and team owner here have developed those ALOT! He has done so good progres and results that his cars are actually is "boosted". They can produce 0,3bar over pressure in intake! Thats amazing.

We had topic here in MRC about boost effect on power. 100hp on 1bar is 200hp, 200 on 2bar is 400 and so on... So,you can imagine if you have 300hp on N/A engine with 0,3bar... :D
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on December 21, 2013, 08:08:37 PM
How are they doing that then? Are they below sea level?
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on December 21, 2013, 08:13:03 PM
Intake has a lot of effect on peak hp, where that power is produced etc a full PP engine can make 300+hp at 10,000 rpm however revving the engine so high on a circuit based vehicle will shorten the time between rebuilds. Increasing the length of the I tak by a few inches can bring that down below 9,000rpm easily.

Ask Carl about how he built a make shift adjustable length intake to get the best results for the engine and take it away to get the intake made at the length that worked best
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on December 21, 2013, 08:14:44 PM
No. Basically,they are just controlling airflow to engine. Actually, I dont know for sure either. But we (me and bro) have thought and talked about that. Its just math and engineering...
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on December 31, 2013, 06:51:31 PM
I have been getting crap of engine and other parts. Also gearbox is painted and check. Some other parts are painted and checked too.

I´m not sure yet will I use original carb. Or will I use oil with gasoline. What you guys are using with old engines?

Also I found nice, cheap Mazda 1500 1970´. I was wondering if they did make Luce 4door sedan?

Oh, engine picture is because I really really want to bringeport that engine. ;) But not yet...
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: steve garbutt on January 01, 2014, 02:23:05 PM
Dunno how I missed this thread :)
Be good to see where you end up with this and nice to know that even with the rarity of rotarys in your part of the world, you still have a massive passion for them :)
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on January 02, 2014, 05:36:54 AM
Lol. Yes, passion is not gone, even if parts are rare ;)

Yes, I ficured that it would be cool project to save this engine and other components from bro`s FB. Brother and me talked about it and thought that it deserves retirement days. So, no more 9000rpm for this. (much;)
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on January 13, 2014, 04:38:07 PM
Oh crap... :/ Few days ago I pulled dizzy off, and now I realized that I forgot to make marks to it and I have allready turned engine... So, is there some system or something how I can put it back to right position?
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on January 28, 2014, 06:06:23 AM
I just drived my Toyota Rav4 to childs "daycarecenter". Parked at the line of other SUV´s and minivans. The it hit me and realized: "Ahh-sh*t, I´m a soccer mom!" :D ;)
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on February 21, 2014, 07:10:23 AM
Just finished Street Rotary book. Actually, I was a bit disapointed. Lots of stuff I allready knew. Just basic fysics and engineering. Offcourse there was things that I didnt knew. But pictures and craphics were really helpful. Well, time to read it again. :)

Btw, does any of you rotary carage/shop owners need apprentice? ;)
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on February 21, 2014, 07:19:51 AM
The book helps you get a basic knowledge of everything. You start to learn more by learning off others experience and knowledge, and you can pick and choose what too believe on il the Internet. Take all that and go try it yourself:)
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on February 21, 2014, 09:57:37 AM
Totally agree with you :)
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on April 25, 2014, 09:06:59 AM
Little update:

All the parts are almost ready. Just some black paint to engine and its ready to be putt back together.

I`m still wondering how I will put dizzy back to engine. Because I allready turned engine so I have to figure out how I will find Top Dead Center. Any ideas and suggestions?

Also, I think I found perfect car to swap my 12A in. You will newer ques what it is! :)
Hint: Old, Japan, rare, weird... ;)
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: shaunwil on April 26, 2014, 09:15:28 AM
There should be 2 marks on the front pulley for the alignment of the ignition, one of those is the correct position for inserting the dizzy. The dizzy has a little countersunk hole that lines it up.

Shaun
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on April 28, 2014, 03:19:46 PM
Ok, thanks Shaun. :)

Weeellll, here it is! Early ´70s Toyota Hiace. In very very good condition! I really want it! And I want to swap 12A in it :rollin
Only problem is that owner is in bad condition and car has no papers. But I hope that I will be able to buy it...
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: Casey on April 28, 2014, 06:33:57 PM
Interesting idea for a conversion :)
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on April 30, 2014, 04:59:26 AM
Yeah, I really dont know can it be done... :) But if I get it, I can do profit just to get it running with original setup...

I do have questions and opinions about my engine though. I´m trying to get maximum torque out of it. Its street ported.

-Should I use original carb or weber/dellorto?
    -If using weber/dellorto, should I use side carb or top of the engine carb?
    -I think I have to do cold air intake, so should I do long or short system?
    -Fuel pressure?

-Should I use long or short headers system?
    -Any ideas about lenght and diameter?
    -What kind of silencers to get it "quiet"?

-Should I use original coils?

-Should I use premix gas with oil?

-Original oilcooler or new?
   -How big is needed? Because engine will be in very difficult place so air flow will not cool it.

-Radiator system? Because same reasons...

All ideas, opinions are needed! :) Thanks
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on April 30, 2014, 04:10:42 PM
My 12A is getting ready. Steel needs few parts to be painted and installed. It looks quite good, I´m happy :)
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on May 03, 2014, 06:01:32 PM
Can some one move this topic to other thread. I think that it belongs to "other rotary powered" thread... :)
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: Casey on May 06, 2014, 12:34:31 AM
Moved :Thumbs-up
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: clive on May 06, 2014, 07:51:01 AM
Quote from: re japi;878197My 12A is getting ready. Steel needs few parts to be painted and installed. It looks quite good, I´m happy :)

You should be happy, looks real good:chat
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: C J R on May 06, 2014, 12:51:49 PM
Well done. Quality looks brilliant !
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on May 07, 2014, 04:37:46 AM
Thanks :) Few parts needs to be painted again, but overall result is quite good. Actually it was easy job to do because engine and gearbox wasnt that dirty.

My biggest consern is that what condition engine internals are. It hasnt run in five years or so.

Side note: few days ago I was visiting Miata club track day and I realized that its possible to put FC Egi engine to old Miata (our laws)... hmm... ;)
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on May 30, 2014, 05:56:24 AM
Quote from: shaunwil;877980There should be 2 marks on the front pulley for the alignment of the ignition, one of those is the correct position for inserting the dizzy. The dizzy has a little countersunk hole that lines it up.
Shaun

Umm, I did find those marks but problem is that I allready pulled those pulleys off and turned engine. So, how do I know what position it goes now?? Because there is now marks that points what position those pulleys go to e-shaft.

My friend is selling Holley 600cmf quite cheap. It used to be on sb V8. So, what kind of modifications in needs to work in my streetport 12A?
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: shaunwil on May 30, 2014, 07:19:02 AM
I think the pulley can only go on one way and in one position if I remember right.

Shaun
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: mpk490p on May 30, 2014, 07:38:35 AM
Yes pulley should only go on one way
Engine looks great btw
Look on rx7.club as they would do more holley conversations we tend to like a 48 IDA over here
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on May 30, 2014, 11:14:16 AM
Hmm, I´m confused. I´m sure that mine goes to many positions...

Thanks Mark. :) Actually it look good in pics but if you look close... i have to paint it more :)

Ok, I´ll ask their thoughts on that Holley :)
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on May 31, 2014, 06:27:42 PM
I checked, that pulley goes to many positions... I dont get it... :(

But finally I got my stupid little project Sunny ready. Hopefully I can go to shakedown (break) it soon... :)

Also I started to clean my diff. Its very dirty compared to engine and gearbox...
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: boosted on May 31, 2014, 06:39:08 PM
lol i had a sunny 2.0 gti when i was a youth!  cracking motor. Bullet proof my mates all took the :censored::censored::censored::censored: till it smoked every last 1 of them!
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: boosted on June 02, 2014, 01:08:14 AM
Why dont you stick the rotary in the sunny? use Pulsar Gtir rear diff and shafts... front drive shafts split at the cv joint ....rotary powered rear wheel sunny! would be a hoon to drive! Contemplating similiar with my mitsi Colt...need to get evo 123 rear axle as direct fit.
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on June 02, 2014, 04:32:54 AM
lol Boosted. Yes, I did have crazy ideas. But then reality hitted me and desided just to go with my original plan. Fb parts will go some old school cruiser, will be having retirement days.
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: boosted on June 02, 2014, 04:38:31 AM
I thought a Mazda MX6 as well! lovely motor pick them up for about £600.00 here but then you can get an rx8 for that so will prob end up with another rx8 ! When the colt engine dies then ill convert to rotary power...but that engine is sweet but taken alot of abuse over the last 5 years!
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on June 04, 2014, 04:59:11 AM
lol

I also planned to swap Kawasaki bike engine to back. ;) Would be fun with 150 horses on but no reverse gear!

My diff is clean and painted now. But breaks are in bad condition. Basically they are seized to solid lump... :( Those metal plates behind brake disks did give me hard time. So I cutted them to pieces and throw them away...
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on June 18, 2014, 05:18:20 AM
Brakes are really giving me hard time... :( I think I need rebuild kit. Seals and stuff are gone. Does anyone got rebuild kit?
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on June 19, 2014, 03:30:20 PM
Diff is slowly coming together.

Those things around spark plugs started to :censored::censored::censored::censored: me off. So I took drill and Dremel. Its not pretty but much easier to change plugs...

Then I thought that I have deserved a beer :cheers
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: Grant Monkhouse on June 19, 2014, 04:48:37 PM
Well done, those stupid spark plugs surround were taken off my rx4 engine by Carl as they\'re such a pain!!
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on June 19, 2014, 04:54:40 PM
Ya, stupid US version rotor housing... :)
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: SSScoupe on August 07, 2014, 02:57:37 PM
Quote from: re japi;878176Yeah, I really dont know can it be done... :) But if I get it, I can do profit just to get it running with original setup...

I do have questions and opinions about my engine though. I´m trying to get maximum torque out of it. Its street ported.

-Should I use original carb or weber/dellorto?
    -If using weber/dellorto, should I use side carb or top of the engine carb?
    -I think I have to do cold air intake, so should I do long or short system?
    -Fuel pressure?

-Should I use long or short headers system?
    -Any ideas about lenght and diameter?
    -What kind of silencers to get it "quiet"?

-Should I use original coils?

-Should I use premix gas with oil?

-Original oilcooler or new?
   -How big is needed? Because engine will be in very difficult place so air flow will not cool it.

-Radiator system? Because same reasons...

All ideas, opinions are needed! :) Thanks

My 12a half bridgport is running the following set up:

Weber 45 DCOE on Rotary Shack Manifold with filter socks - i chose this over a IDA set up as i understood that it should help with peak power earlier in the rev range

Redback headers into custom twin primary pipes almost to the diff, then into a hotdog with an electric butterfly valve into a 3"pipe over the diff into a large 2.5" stainless packed truck style muffler. Valve open its about 96db.

Running rx7 fc coil and bosch coil on a Direct fire ignition set up

Locked distributor

I\'m running premix but really the original oil pump system should have been fine.

Running a Carter Black fuel pump with a fuel tank modified to take 1/2" fuel lines.  Aeroflow 1/2" pipe runs on a return system to the tank at about 4psi.

Recently installed an Aluminium radiator and oil cooler which i yet to run the car with as i need to fab the brackets to fit. Has a single thermo fan.

Carb is still on a base tune with basic jets etc but in the 500kms of testing i\'ve done so far it pulled like a train!  Can\'t wait to get it running again!  Good luck with your build!
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on August 07, 2014, 06:24:43 PM
Thank you!!! Really good info :)
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on August 22, 2014, 03:03:37 PM
Forgot to thank Clive for my present! Thank you sir! :)
Now I can do some progress to my diff and brakes.

Also, thanks to Steve and Chris for trying to do that mustard prank on me. My bro was laughing hard when I told him that ;)

Another topic: I have been visiting Miata club of Finland´s track days for a few days now. I desiced to join them in Facebook and in their Forum. As I told to Lisa in RS11 we dont have rotary forum here in Finland, and actually we dont have active rotary members. We do have Mazda forum, but they always and usually have their events far away from where I live. So thats why I joined Miata guys. I dont regret to join them, really nice people, active and has lots of track days near me. I also talked with them that some day I want to do a Miata with rotary. They loved that idea and really wanted to support me if they can.
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on September 23, 2014, 05:57:32 AM
Funny thing happened few days ago. My workmate asked me if I need another diff for my project. His boyfriend has diff with LSD and 5,125 ration. They didnt know if its Mazda part so they asked me.

He sended these photos and said that ring and pinion has markings 1480. Also he send this pdf to me. Check 1480-27-110 on that catalog...

 https://www.google.fi/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=r7YfVIOVCKu7ygOmyICwAg&url=https://www.mazdamotorsports.com/pdfs/catalog/07_Differential_Drivetrain.pdf&cd=2&ved=0CB4QFjAB&usg=AFQjCNGy8uKsBvcS8dbfb7y8gLkGCPhkrw&sig2=XNwkZDORAPImP4RqGrdozg

Is this true? :) Is it for my diff? And how much I will pay for it...? :D
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: clive on September 23, 2014, 08:01:12 AM
To be sure, from memory you need to know the amount of teeth then divide the pinion amount into the crown wheel and this will give you the ratio
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on September 25, 2014, 08:40:33 AM
Thank you sir. :) But first we have to confirm is that really a Mazda part and does it fit to my rearend... (fingers grossed)
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on September 25, 2014, 02:36:03 PM
Ok, that diff is in my garage now. IT IS FB DIFF!!! I´m happy and confused :D

Only problem is that my diff has 24 splines and that lsd diff has 26...
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on September 26, 2014, 12:29:14 PM
Here they are.

I really dont understand how that kind of part has found its way HERE, in the middle of nowhere...? :confused:

Weird thing is that, LSD diff has S2 driveshaft flange but it has S3 26 spline side gear... Oh, and my bro´s car is actually(and my parts) -83, not -84 as we thought it is...

Now I just have to figure out how I can use that diff...

Btw, does anyone have idea what that lsd diff with 5,125 is worth?
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on October 30, 2014, 02:20:06 PM
Today I found interesting project from our car sell net site. -76 Mazda 929 Ht!

It would be awesome project to get back to streets, as an RX-4 clone ofcourse. I allready emailed seller. Seems like it needs body work, dont know about chassis. Biggest consern is that how many parts are missing. It would be impossible to find them here... :/

And if chassis and body are too rusty, I cant do it. :( And seems like seller knows that its a rare car so I imagine that price will be big too...

Anyways, I wonder how big differenses are between 929/Rx-4 and Fb´s engine, gearbox and diff mounts? Would it be "easy" to swap my Fb parts on it?
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: re japi on November 04, 2014, 11:15:46 AM
Guy said that body and chassis are rusty, but can be done. All parts are there, except rear bumber. Also he has another body and it comes with that car. Dunno what to do...

http://www.nettivaraosa.com/kunnostettavat-ajoneuvot/1926949
Title: New life for FB´s 12A
Post by: Gabor on November 14, 2014, 06:12:30 PM
Wow, your 12a looks amazing! Also like the 929. It seems like parts are rare however not impossible to find. They are a bit expensive though. At least for an rx3. Not sure on rx4\'s.