Guys please need your help very urgent I broke half the diffuser inside the primary injector hole and I can\'t see it there I think it\'s falling inside now so what shall I do now please?
Cheers
If your 100% certain its dropped into the engine then its. Exhaust manifold off and very slowly turn the engine by hand until the apex seal sweeps it passes the exhaust port.
Good luck
Yes I tried to the bit for few hours no luck and then last attempt it\'s gone inside and I can\'t see it anymore, you mean I take the lower intake manifold and how I turn the engine by hand?
I turn the engine by sticking a 17mm spanner on the power steering pump pulley and rotate it that way
I did turn it by hand and I can hear the broken bit inside moving ,what direction I move the engine clock wise or the other way?
I think it\'s stuck somewhere inside I can\'t turn the engine anymore only half rotor turn or less
that doesn\'t sound good , can you turn it the other way ?
:censored::censored::censored::censored:ed I just turn the engine on few times without relay and it\'s sound normal now I can turn it freely so I don\'t where the broken bit gone now !I can\'t strip tue engine because of small plastic bit stuck inside.
as the above post , take off the exhaust manifold ( no idea if that\'s a big job .. sounds like it though )
And then rotate and see if you can see it thru the exhaust port
Quote from: Aliakeel;861259:censored::censored::censored::censored:ed I just turn the engine on few times without relay and it\'s sound normal now I can turn it freely so I don\'t where the broken bit gone now !I can\'t strip tue engine because of small plastic bit stuck inside.
Please tell me you didn\'t turn over the engine using the starter motor ? :xconfused
Yes I did mate, well how I\'m suppose to take small piece plastic out ?
So can that piece gone out throw the exhaust or just stay inside forever?
I mean it\'s plastic I know it\'s bad for rotary but is not as piece metal it might just broken to piece now.
You\'ll be lucky if you haven\'t damaged the engine by turning it over......
Darwin Award nominee 2013
I don\'t have a choice guys the :censored::censored::censored::censored:ing bit fall inside the engine already and I can\'t take of the exhaust manifold or tue lower intake it\'s bit job,how to I know the engine get damage now ?
Comp test. BUT! Only after getting the offending bit out.
Get the exhaust manifold off and have a look around. It will probably just fall out. Tbh dude id be highly surprised if you haven\'t just goosed your engine.
It\'s a bigger job to take the engine apart. You don\'t really have a choice now other than run the engine and hope the heat causes it to disintegrate. You have most likely just cost yourself a lot of money from trying to rush a solution.
Well I\'m fitting the new injectors and rails 2mo then a remap and see what happen.
In my eye if it\'s plastic bit can damage the engine we shouldn\'t drive these cars anymore if they to sensitive like that ,:censored::censored::censored::censored: happen sometimes even with highly skills people and I don\'t really care in end of the day rotary will need rebuilt after while wether you dropped something inside or not end off.
Nothing like showing a little mechanical sympathy :)
If you put anything inside any type of engine it will cause damage whether is rotary piston plastic metal or water
I tried all day to take the bit out and I coudnt plus I\'m fasting then I said to myself what\'s the point I tried to turn the motor by hand I can hear it inside then it\'s stuck can\'t turn the motor anymore,so I thought that\'s it I\'m gonna try m luck and turn the engine and I did and it sound normal after that turn the engine by hand freely so I don\'t know what happen to the mysteiry broken bit :)
Quote from: davehg;861272If you put anything inside any type of engine it will cause damage whether is rotary piston plastic metal or water
You can leave nut or bolt inside the piston engine and runs normal that\'s what I heard from mechanics and people built engine for living don\'t get me wrong I love rotary but sometimes it get into my head in bad way...
That\'s going in my sig.
Quote from: Aliakeel;861277You can leave nut or bolt inside the piston engine and runs normal that\'s what I heard from mechanics and people built engine for living don\'t get me wrong I love rotary but sometimes it get into my head in bad way...
Ummm not in a million years... You could always go and try it if your convinced :Giggle
If you put a nut inside a piston engine it will most likely come out through the cylinder head!! Valves broken and everything.
If the engine is turning over freely now then don\'t worry about it. It\'s probably jammed in your turbo somewhere so the :censored::censored::censored::censored: is goig to hit the fan when you go for the remap.
A bit of advice, when working on your car where their is a chance of something falling inside your engine then remove the piece you are working on and cover any holes it leaves.
A guy on rx7 club had his injector diffusers fall into the engine when doing dyno runs and his motor became a paper weight. Those things are junk and don\'t really belong in an engine with new Injectors
Right one more thing after I install new injectors can I plug the apexi ecu i bought and start the engine or not ?because I\'m taking the car on trailer for remap...but I need the car running first .
No it will not run it will flood the engine
Quote from: Grant Monkhouse;861286If you put a nut inside a piston engine it will most likely come out through the cylinder head!! Valves broken and everything.
If the engine is turning over freely now then don\'t worry about it. It\'s probably jammed in your turbo somewhere so the :censored::censored::censored::censored: is goig to hit the fan when you go for the remap.
A bit of advice, when working on your car where their is a chance of something falling inside your engine then remove the piece you are working on and cover any holes it leaves.
A guy on rx7 club had his injector diffusers fall into the engine when doing dyno runs and his motor became a paper weight. Those things are junk and don\'t really belong in an engine with new Injectors
The engine turn freely by hand now with no problem at all,also I did cover the UIM already and all injector holes,beside these stupid diffuser in the primary holes are so sealed I tried everything to save them in one piece I did catch one but the other one broke into half and fall inside they just crumble so I couldn\'t save it,I have to take all diffusers out because I\'m fitting ID once and they don\'t work with diffuser .
Quote from: davehg;861288No it will not run it will flood the engine
So best thing to do is install the injectors and plug the ecu and that\'s it, the remap people will sort the rest out yea?
So if the engine turn freely by hand now all way means I might be ok they might fall into exhaust section already,can\'t hear anything now when I turn the engine just huoshsh sound on three sides of turning .
When it comes out the engine it will go through the turbo
So that means the engine saved and the turbo will blow out the exhaust is that right?
It means it could damage the engine and turbo
I thought when it pass the engine it will drop into exhaust manifold!!so if I remove the manifold out now I should see it or just leave it now and let the turbo spool and blow it out,Im really getting confused here ,grant say it\'s ok if it pass the engine and you say it\'s no.!
Lets just hope you don\'t have bits of apex seal joining your bits of diffuser inside your engine and turbo by now.
Never rush this stuff... There is not a lot of room between the rotor and housing at full compression for anything to fit in between.
I would not even consider a remap until you are 110% that its no longer in your engine or turbo anyware. Otherwise your just hammering more and more nails in your 13b shaped coffin.
Quote from: Arnie_O;861300Lets just hope you don\'t have bits of apex seal joining your bits of diffuser inside your engine and turbo by now.
Never rush this stuff... There is not a lot of room between the rotor and housing at full compression for anything to fit in between.
I would not even consider a remap until you are 110% that its no longer in your engine or turbo anyware. Otherwise your just hammering more and more nails in your 13b shaped coffin.
Ok and how do I check it\'s all clear now and nothing stuck inside the engine ?I did turn it few times by hand it turns freely and Sound normal so what\'s the next step i should now?
Cheers
Just noticed this thread, I don\'t think I really need to comment on it but I really have no clue how someone has done this. I had to take the secondary injector diffusers out to fit my 1680s in the FC, spent around 2 hours carefully removing them as I knew that if I messed any of it up I would need to remove a huge amount of things to get to it. They are made from plastic with rubber O rings, if they did manage to somehow not jam anything the parts would shoot into the turbine blades and probably then melt and stick. At best you are going to have an unbalanced turbine blade, at worst the apex seals are damaged and you have very badly scored housings.
The engine cannot be remapped at this stage, any tuner who is going to try and tune the car in this state shouldn\'t be called a tuner.
Ok how do I solve the problem now I heard all answers but I still don\'t know what to do next at this stage?
Shall I remove the LIM and the down pipe and might find it there or maybe in exhaust system now.
You have the answer already, remove the exhaust manifold !! Then slowly turn the engine by hand to see if any plastic parts come out of the exhaust ports.
Hell of job gonna be 2mo and hopefully I find the piece :censored::censored::censored::censored: somewhere .
Erm ok, having read all this, where do we start Ali....
The correct way to do it would have been to take off the exhaust, turbo, manifold and rotated the engine in the opposite direction slowly so the bits moved past the exhaust port, then rotated it again the correct way so the seals pushed them back out the exhaust port... You shouldn\'t have rotated it so the bits got squashed in the compression chamber...
Your problem now is whether the bits have crushed into smaller pieces and damaged a side side seal or apex seal or got stuck in a spark plug etc. I would definately remove the plugs to have a look.
The bits will now likely be in the exhaust manifold and as above will eventually come through turbo in some form increasing the risk of damaging the turbine blades or getting melted onto them causing inbalance as above and destroying themselves.....
And please tell us who the mechanic is that told you nuts and bolts can be left in a piston engine so we can steer well clear!!! haha
I can\'t believe all this hassle I get from small piece plastic,anyway I know the route now where to start and hopefully I find it 2mo.
I think you misunderstood what I said, if the engine is turning freely then the plastic is probably in the turbo manifold as everyone has already said, this is BAD!! As if you start the engine it will spin the turbo up at quite a high speed and cause real bad damage.
Take the turbo, manifold, lim off and find the piece and make sure you get all of it.
Who is mapping your car??
We lost one in a recent motor, yep, the front half is now scrap
I will try to take the turbo out and turn the engine and hopefully find it somewhere ,what if I didnt find it there what shall I do next?
Quote from: Aliakeel;861321I will try to take the turbo out and turn the engine and hopefully find it somewhere ,what if I didnt find it there what shall I do next?
Look inside the turbo exhaust side. Are you on a single turbo?
Then compression test.
Who is mapping the car?
Yes mate it\'s single and I fitted the injectors now how do I check for fuel leak I did switch the ignition on and I checked everything is now leak or smell of petrol and the FPR goes to 40 psi then when I turn of the key dropping very slowly is that normal?
I don\'t know yet who\'s gonna remap my car .
Any pics and details if the injectors and parts? Will give us an idea if you\'ve got and fitted everything needed
It\'s full function fuel system 2000 and 1000 ID injectors with FPR I did switch the ignition n and off few times to check for leak but I can\'t see any so far and the pressure goes to 40 psi when ignition on and then drop very slowly to zero.I put everything back together now ,and try to remove the turbo now and manifold to find the broken bit somewhere .
Ok I think on of the secondary injector leaks very very hard to notice it from the o ring top feed but I mean you can\'t see it dripping or anything shall I leave it now or I have to pull a part everything again and but new o ring ?
What size o ring are they anyway my fd it\'s 1993 are they 14mm or 11mm?
I strongly suggest reading what\'s been going on that you take it to a specialist rx7 garage and get them to sort it all out, after all you don\'t want a fuel leak and fire
Yea I will take it to a garage next week end.
Quote from: Aliakeel;861359Yea I will take it to a garage next week end.
Hopefully not the garage that told you it was perfectly acceptable to have foreign objects in any engine. :rollin
I can\'t find that bit now I have looked in turbo manifold nothing there,and there is no leak at all now iv just tighten the bolt a bit more and it\'s all good now,
Get it compression tested now. To see if you have wedged plastic in the apex seals and lost compression.
Is there any damage on the turbine impeller?
You will ned to take the turbo out of the housing to check
I can\'t do compression test now I moved one of the oil cooler lines out because it was leaks oil before on sandwich plate adaptor so the engine will spit oil everywhere I have to wait and get replacement hose this week and put everything back and do the compression test ! I have feeling it\'s fine but I will check again.
You know you need a rotary comp tester to know for sure right?
I don\'t have this I use normal tester if I\'m honest ,I can turn the engine by hand all way many times and I can hear it inside wohshs noise three times every turn freely ,do know what best thing to do is take it to the garage remap it and blast it on motor way haha.
Good luck comp testing with a piston tester.
You need to thee the compression for each chamber and the cranking speed to get a good idea.
I had whooshing on my FC BUT TWO SEALS WHERE DUFFED WHEN I STRIPPED IT
ive read through the whole thread and all i really have to say aliakeel is that for me you are everything that is wrong about trying to be a home mechanic without having any skill or common sense to back it up.
from what you have said and the lack of understanding you have if ever there was a case to take a car to a garage to sort it out this is it.
now dont get me wrong i take my hat of to anyone learning to be a home mechanic but you have to take it slowly with loads and loads of common sense reading up and taking advice from those that have done it before or you get the issues like this where a couple of hours doing the right thing like you had been told by taking the exhaust manifold off and checking it the right way could of potentially saved you thousands.
i hope you get away with it but if you dont i hope youve learnt your lesson the hard way
I appreciate what you saying mate but I do have enough knowledge to run and service a car,I do I admit it\'s my first time to install the fuel injectors and I want to do it because I want to learn this is my hobbie I love cars,beside garages charge loads for a job like that and to be honest I won\'t have a problem if I get the diffuser out but :censored::censored::censored::censored: happen sometimes and everyone do mistakes I can live with that,also I did fit water injector kit turbo timer few gauges,brake lines and loads more myself so I saved few grand on jobs I can do it myself.fuel system tricky but is not that hard as I expected.never mind I will remap tue car if the engine blow that\'s fine in end the day it\'s a car so everything it\'s fixable I lose money but I learn in same time witches what. Want and I took the challenge n first please can\'t go garages all my life for everything.
Fingers crossed it\'s all OK buddy. TBH, you\'re gonna have to be very lucky... but it can happen :)
You still hoping to sell the car then?
http://www.mazdarotaryclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79624
Wow, £21K for an FD and you are messing about with the engine after having dropped things inside it. If I was a buyer I\'d be walking away if I found that out. Shame as it is a stunning looking car
With those mods and power it must f already had a fuel injector upgrade on it ?
Quote from: davehg;861435With those mods and power it must f already had a fuel injector upgrade on it ?
States it has 850cc injectors all round? Should be ok for a bit of power but not a massive amount.
Ok guys lets not have a bash, he\'s made a mistake, a fairly big one and the last thing he probably needs is us making him more frustrated.
Hopefully the engine will be ok. And if he\'s still selling he will get the asking price. IMO it\'s overly priced BUT you never know.
Is out out out I finally find after long search it was dropped from the LIM pass tue engine into the turbo manifold and I found it in of the holes there in one piece thanks god for that so happy now,I should get :censored::censored::censored::censored:ed now :),all most everything done very soon then of for a remap....
Thanks guys for all advices.
Quote from: Bobbit;861432Wow, £21K for an FD and you are messing about with the engine after having dropped things inside it. If I was a buyer I\'d be walking away if I found that out. Shame as it is a stunning looking car
Is not just normal an FD pal my kit and wheels tyres and spray and labour cost nearly two fds single turbo ...without the car and mods...
Quote from: Aliakeel;861463Is not just normal an FD pal my kit and wheels tyres and spray and labour cost nearly two fds single turbo ...without the car and mods...
Rule #1 for modded cars, you never get back any of the cash you spend on mods. There have been a few heavily modded FDs come through this forum, the ones that hold their value usually have the titles including \'time attack\' or \'re amemiya\'.
If I had bolted my engine and turbo into mine I would have had around 650bhp for £8k all in.
Well end the day the car worth in Market 30k easy and I\'m selling for 21k withces very fair price to what been done inside out...
I never found 650bh for 8k pal they all around 12 to 15k .anyway everyone has his opinion and I respect all comment no problem this is not my intention ATM...
I sold the orange and black veil side fortune 18 months ago for a friend, we could only get 13k but fingers crossed you get more
Quote from: Aliakeel;861474I never found 650bh for 8k pal they all around 12 to 15k .anyway everyone has his opinion and I respect all comment no problem this is not my intention ATM...
"Built, not bought" phrase springs to mind.
Quote from: m1tch;861481"Built, not bought" phrase springs to mind.
That phrase really annoys me. It doesn\'t make sense. To BUILD something first you have to BUY something.
To buy and install that veil side kit and do it properly requires a talented person, or person to fit it, and then even more talent to paint it. Not something that can be done easily in the back yard
my car worth 3.99 and bag crisp who cares guys...I\'m just enjoying driving + attention ..
Quote from: Aliakeel;861485my car worth 3.99 and bag crisp who cares guys...I\'m just enjoying driving + attention ..
Glad you found the piece, means you can enjoy some more
Yea man such a relief,will post some pics of the injectors installation next few days..
Quote from: m1tch;861470If I had bolted my engine and turbo into mine I would have had around 650bhp for £8k all in.
really? tell us more, you had a t88 right?:Hammer
Quote from: Aliakeel;861463Is not just normal an FD pal my kit and wheels tyres and spray and labour cost nearly two fds single turbo ...without the car and mods...
You missunderstood, i was not questioning the value of the car, just the haphazard approach you took on working on the car. For the money you are asking I would not expect a home mechanic to be touching the engine. Especailly after dropping something inside the engine and then trying to start the engine. To my mind that is a very stupid thing to do and I am wondering what other mistakes you have made on the car. Hence my comment about walking away.
Quote from: Bobbit;861520You missunderstood, i was not questioning the value of the car, just the haphazard approach you took on working on the car. For the money you are asking I would not expect a home mechanic to be touching the engine. Especailly after dropping something inside the engine and then trying to start the engine. To my mind that is a very stupid thing to do and I am wondering what other mistakes you have made on the car. Hence my comment about walking away.
There is nothing wrong with my car what so ever mate and plus is nothing to do with u if I made a mistake that\'s my problem not yours mind your own business and stop talking crab,people can\'t buy my car because they can\'t afford it have u wonder why Veilside made kit cost 10k so people like u can\'t drive car like that and keep them dream.
I didn\'t drop anything in engine if u can\'t read properly what happen and I took the bit out in end so there is no problem I been driving the car almost everyday for over a year now didn\'t have any problem .
No more stupid comments please
Quote from: Aliakeel;861532There is nothing wrong with my car what so ever mate and plus is nothing to do with u if I made a mistake that\'s my problem not yours mind your own business and stop talking crab,people can\'t buy my car because they can\'t afford it have u wonder why Veilside made kit cost 10k so people like u can\'t drive car like that and keep them dream.
I didn\'t drop anything in engine if u can\'t read properly what happen and I took the bit out in end so there is no problem I been driving the car almost everyday for over a year now didn\'t have any problem .
No more stupid comments please
Well you seem like a throughly pleasant chap, someone comments on your questionable decisions as a home mechanic and you decide to lash out by claiming i\'m some kind of pauper. How do you know what I can and cannot afford? I dont own a veilside FD as the kit is not to my taste, it\'s over priced and it is far to big for the UK roads IMO. I acually said it was a nice car.
I am currently looking at a number of cars as I miss driving an FD, I have quite a healthy budget in mind but no way would I consider even looking at your car as you were given plenty of advice on what to do, you ignored it all and did the worst thing possible in turning the engine over. That was my point. If i was going to spend £21000 on a car I would expect it to be well looked after by an expert, especially when the majority of RX-7 sell for under £7, not some clueless hamfisted home mechanic who is incapable of listening to basic advice from a specialst forum. I wasn\'t talking crab, it was more lobster.
Quote from: Bobbit;861537I wasn\'t talking crab, it was more lobster.
:rollin:rollin:Thumbs-up
Yes mate your right and I\'m wrong my car don\'t worth anything and has no engine but only does 450bh I don\'t know how it must be the engine blow up but I\'m still driving for a year On red line most the time Aw yea the engine blow up but I\'m still driving I don\'t how aw yea :censored::censored::censored::censored: of
im not questioning the value of your car, if you think you will sell it for £21k then great, I wish you well with selling it. I am however, questioning how you look after the car. According to your forsale thread you have only done 2000 in 3yrs, you drive it everyday and you have just said you mostly drive on the redline. So you drive 2 miles per journey, on the redline while showing off and getting loads of attention (unsuprising if you are bouncing off the redline). Sounds like you are a very responsable owner who is sympathetic to his car and it\'s rotary engine.
OK, It\'s time to lock this thread. It\'s getting waaaay off the original topic (which, thankfully, had a happy ending) and is getting a little too personal.