I would prefer you guys to tell me if I\'m right or wrong, I just take offense to obnoxious Yanks doing it... from RX7club...
Quote from: helmetface;11388508Alrighty so apparently I\'ve been living under a rock for my adult life because I never fully appreciated the power and capacity of the rx7\'s
So I\'ve decided to build one! I\'m still a ways away from being financially ready, but I\'ve already done a lot of research. .which only revealed to me that I had a lot more reading to go.
Essentially, I\'m sure of a few things but I\'ve got loads of questions, I\'d figure I\'d start a thread to get a few basics out of the way:
Goals: track :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:/weekend warrior. I am unsure of exact hp goals, I would be completely satisfied with mid 400\'s And I intend to Auto X, time attack** and drift on occasion. So my setup will not be tailored to any specific event, I\'m no competitor, just looking to have fun.
Initially I was all about the cheap power of an LS1, but I am now a rotary enthusiast(I know, I don\'t even own one yet! ) I will be seeking an FC (leaning to an s4 but would take an s5 as well) and I am hoping I can find one with a 13b in decent shape. I\'d love a 20b..but the money just won\'t be there with all the other :censored::censored::censored::censored: I intend on buying for the car. As a side note I will likely be running a water kit, what are popular mixes for 7\'s? I know that on speeds most people run 100% methanol.
I\'m looking for single turbo suggestions, with the above hp goals in mind and my biggest concern is having as little lag as possible. I\'m currently DD\'ing a Mazda speed 3 (Mazda for life) that is making nearly 400 to the wrong wheels with a gtx3071- with this I\'m able to reach 20 psi by 3800rpm when slamming on the gas at 3k...it\'s awesome!
I am also looking for suggestions for tuning solutions. I am no stranger to tuning and I am looking for very capable software, nothing that is too geared towards the track as I want to enjoy this car. (I read that some don\'t allow you to do CL tuning and that bugs me, I\'d like to avoid things as such)
This was all much more long winded than I anticipated, but I figured my first post should be a good one :)
For those with a short attention span I\'m mainly looking for suggestions for the following:
-Turbo size
-Street or bridge porting(unsure)
-Injectors (I\'m least familiar here and I obviously don\'t want to run out of fueling)
-Anything that will help prolong the engine (besides the obvious not revving the :censored::censored::censored::censored: out of it)
-Anything that will help spool and increasing that low end torque that the 13b lacks.
And whatever else people can suggest! I\'m all ears.(especially links for future reading!)
Thanks
Quote from: Skifledanabit;11388646A couple of things. Bridgeporting reduces the active life of your engine, wears it out faster, you gain more hp but instead of a 60k mile rebuild (approx) you end up with a shorter lifespan between rebuilds, plis its only really worth it if you get all the supporting mods as well, i.e. ECU, intake, exhaust, injectors etc. Also not forgetting a rougher idle and increased fuel consumption. Street porting gives less hp than bridge, but your engine will last longer use less fuel and technically, you get the bang with pretty much standard, if not basic supporting mods.
Rotary engines love to be revved "the :censored::censored::censored::censored:" out of, in fact, they kind of need it to get rid of any carbon build up, only when fully heated up though.
My opinion would be to find a rotary specialist near you, let them take a look and discuss your needs with them. They will be able to point you in the right direction with regards to your budget. I would also start slow, dont just buy a car and then slap massive power in it, thats a receipe for a crash and a write off. Get used to stock power, then add bit by bit the mods, you never know, you may prefer the more stock vehicle with some basic modifications.
Quote from: diabolical1;11388684Quote from: Skifledanabit;11388646A couple of things. Bridgeporting reduces the active life of your engine, wears it out faster, you gain more hp but instead of a 60k mile rebuild (approx) you end up with a shorter lifespan between rebuilds, plis its only really worth it if you get all the supporting mods as well, i.e. ECU, intake, exhaust, injectors etc. Also not forgetting a rougher idle and increased fuel consumption. Street porting gives less hp than bridge, but your engine will last longer use less fuel and technically, you get the bang with pretty much standard, if not basic supporting mods.
Rotary engines love to be revved "the :censored::censored::censored::censored:" out of, in fact, they kind of need it to get rid of any carbon build up, only when fully heated up though.
while i\'ll be blunt here, i\'ll try not to come off as mean. however, 90% of this is rubbish ... or at least, it should be prefaced with some qualifier or something.
1. if a bridge is built right, and cared for appropriately, it will last. if a bridge is turbocharged and TUNED right, and cared for appropriately, it will last.
2. to a certain extent, if your goal is to build a 400+ HP rotary, i think you\'ve already made the decision to forfeit gas mileage regardless of porting. however, you are correct that a bridge will consume more, relative to streetports and stock ports.
3. careful tuning is required for horsepower and reliability regardless of porting. there will probably be nothing "basic" about 400+ HP streetport.
4. on the same turbo, the bridgeport, indeed, should yield a relatively better powerband and quicker spool. however, it will obviously also be somewhat more obnoxious.
5. as for revving, it\'s neither here nor there. once turbocharged, the NEED to rev higher to make power has been quashed.
Quote from: Skifledanabit;11388646My opinion would be to find a rotary specialist near you, let them take a look and discuss your needs with them. They will be able to point you in the right direction with regards to your budget. I would also start slow, dont just buy a car and then slap massive power in it, thats a receipe for a crash and a write off. Get used to stock power, then add bit by bit the mods, you never know, you may prefer the more stock vehicle with some basic modifications.
this is sound advice.
Quote from: Skifledanabit;11388646Quote from: diabolical1;11388684while i\'ll be blunt here, i\'ll try not to come off as mean. however, 90% of this is rubbish ... or at least, it should be prefaced with some qualifier or something.
1. if a bridge is built right, and cared for appropriately, it will last. if a bridge is turbocharged and TUNED right, and cared for appropriately, it will last.
2. to a certain extent, if your goal is to build a 400+ HP rotary, i think you\'ve already made the decision to forfeit gas mileage regardless of porting. however, you are correct that a bridge will consume more, relative to streetports and stock ports.
3. careful tuning is required for horsepower and reliability regardless of porting. there will probably be nothing "basic" about 400+ HP streetport.
4. on the same turbo, the bridgeport, indeed, should yield a relatively better powerband and quicker spool. however, it will obviously also be somewhat more obnoxious.
5. as for revving, it\'s neither here nor there. once turbocharged, the NEED to rev higher to make power has been quashed.
1. On average, to a layman, who is not someone who meticulously services their car and follows all correct start and stop procedures, a bridgeport is more likely to have issues than a street or stock. I wasn\'t stating that was the case for all.
2 + 3, I wasn\'t taking into account 400+hp, I was thinking of initial work that will eventually lead to possibly 400+hp. I was stating that bridgeporting will require more supporting mods compared to street or stock in order to ensure a free and even flow of air/fuel. (bigger injectors, which aren\'t exactly required for street or stock ports, otherwise all you are doing is wasting fuel).
4. right, ok.
5. regardless of whether you have a turbo or not, there will still be carbon build up which will still need to be removed by a high rev or two, revving for the sake of power was never entered into it.
From a PM
Quote from: helmetfaceSorry what\'s the deal I can start a thread but can\'t post a reply til I hit 10 posts? Lol a bit redundant. I\'ll paste my reply here as I wasn\'t able to in the thread. Feel free to answer in the thread for a free bump :)
Very insightful post skilled, thanks for taking the time to elaborate.
I\'m curious, what kind of power difference are we looking at between the porting options? With the supporting mods in mind of course
Thanks again!
I\'m really only experienced with EGi\'s with UK setups, but I am versed with the TIIs. I\'m sure if you search the forum, you will find all the info you require. Seeing as different people get different supporting mods which give different results, its hard to say how much power you can expect from each port.
Do not forget to take a read through this... http://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/frequently-asked-questions-2nd-generation-rx-7-faq-fc-494667/
as it gives a lot of information and link to helpful topics.
As I said, many people have tried many different things that have or have not worked, something that may have worked for one person may not work for another. So in order to please people who immediately call bull, just keep an open mind and decide which route you want to take. It is not a quick job and you should do all the research you can.
A bridge port doesn\'t reduce engine life, :censored::censored::censored::censored: tuning and ancillaries does. A bridge port will make the same if not a little bit more peak power than an equivalent street port, HOWEVER. A bridge will spool a turbo quicker due too extra over lap in the lower rev ranges.
A street port will get better MPG but not much more, a well tuned bridge can retain 20+ MPG crushing on the motorway, also depends on the driver.
I will read through the other bits you have posted but that\'s all I read so far
See, now I don\'t have any problem with you saying that, I think I just dislike americans...
Quote from: Skifledanabit;851955See, now I don\'t have any problem with you saying that, I think I just dislike americans...
Lmfao!!!!!
Generally bridge ports fail early than a stock port because they are used in high power applications, which by their very nature tend to reduce the life span of any engine configuration.
Obviously that does depend on the size of the bridge though...
Just to throw a penny in the pond :
Could wear on the seals be increased by potential poor finishing around the bridge port ? Also if the material is cut away a bit too closely to the water jacket, a bridge port will have a higher risk of coolant breaking through, but good templates and care during the build should prevent these.
Yes price but that isn\'t down to having a bridge port, that is down to the porter being crap.
When i first met carl I asked him about PP engines not lasting as long as a standard engine and he just laughed and said it will last as long as you want it too last.
Iv read a great thread on ausrotary where a guy has had a monster port/J port in his rally car for 5years and not had it break be amuse of the port size, only reason he stripped the engine was to have a look, no water seal failure, no seals dropping into the port. Nothing. He even posted pics of his ports, they were mahoosive!
I am a real hot head, and I am not fun to discuss with. But often I find there are alot of know-it-alls on the 7club. Guys here just answer plain and simple, thats it.
As for rotary specialist, isn\'t Clive that guy in the UK? :P